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Shortage of engineers is getting worse
Comments
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C_Mababejive wrote: »Why is it that the holding of an Engineering degree is seen as the pinnacle of employability in the industry? Why arent companies growing experienced people within the workforce instead of sideloading brand new graduates?
The larger and long established firms (such as BNFL) do have decent apprentice schemes so they will have a steady stream of youngsters coming through the ranks.
But, in the High Tech sectors, many of the fast growing firms are young and don't have years of trading behind them so they've never had apprentice schemes. They need staff who can hit the ground running as there's simply not 2/3/4 years available to train staff.
Trouble is that uni degrees aren't aimed at giving job skills. When I've employed accountancy graduates, they can barely prepare a set of accounts in the real world. Engineers come out of uni the same - full of academia but usually out of date "skills" which means that they can't immediately start being productive for the employer.0 -
AlwaysPondering wrote: »Because school kids have no idea what an engineer does. And until the media start showing truthfully what we do, rather than the normal bloke in a boiler suit and hard hat, I doubt that will change. I know that there are many activities carried out in schools by engineer's to show what we do, as I was involved in helping them for a number of years.
I don't think it's the media who are responsible - it's the teachers and the education system. There is no cohesion between the sciences (chemistry and physics) and the hands-on woodwork and metalwork, so the kids don't see the big picture. The bright kids do the sciences, the thick ones do woodwork/metalwork. Making a wooden fish or a metal trowel doesn't give a proper reflection of true engineering does it, yet it's all kids see of hands-on technology.
It's 40 years since I started secondary school and a couple of years ago, I went round the schools to choose one for my son who's just started. I couldn't believe that the "tech" subjects just havn't moved on - the workshops and labs looked exactly the same as they did 40 years ago. Only one out of 5 schools had any decent kit - it had a 3d printer, CAD stations and it was proudly displaying working robots designed by their second year whereas the other schools were proudly displaying wooden fish - guess which school had a high proportion of their students going to study engineering at Uni?0 -
TrickyWicky wrote: »I've been right about you from my first reply to you thats what. You even admit to writing to your MP! IT people influencing politicians. It really is no wonder that engineering took a nose dive is it. You IT people always look down on engineers and think they're some lesser sort of life form because they don't work with computers.
Of course engineers use computers! What do you think they use to design things? Or to do calculations? They are office based professionals.Still in USA engineers can aim for silicon valley and $100K starting salaries. I would see it like the law in UK. It looks a good job so smart people go for it. In the reality only a few probably make the large sums but it all about the perception. Until engineering is perceived as a good career choice we'll continue to have a skills shortage.
Indeed, interestingly the average salary of a university educated/chartered engineer is probably higher than the salary of a solicitor, particularly when you only consider high street solicitors - the bulk. Yet law holds so much more prestige largely because of the ignorance surrounding engineering.citricsquid wrote: »Salaries in England are pretty dire compared to America, especially in technology fields...£60,000 in England is more than you pay unless someone goes into management!
Graduates of the engineering disciplines are typically the best paid graduates in the UK, with starting salaries between 25 - 35k. A 60k salary is not unusual with 15 years experience and chartered status. Compared to professionals in health care, journalism, the heritage sector, education...even areas such as law (high street and local government solicitors aren't exactly always raking it in, plus there's can be relatively high unemployment among law and GDL graduates simply because there is now such an oversupply) the prospects for those in engineering and technology aren't so bad!0 -
Of course engineers use computers! What do you think they use to design things? Or to do calculations? They are office based professionals.
True enough, and engineers also design computers (which IT people really can't do) including the PCBs, the chips thereon, and the cunning bits and bobs inside the chips.
We have computers in our office where we've designed the processor, designed the chip around it, designed the PCB it sits on, written the compilers, and then ported the OS with our bare hands.
Using a computer is like driving a car. Being an engineer means you can design the engine and the Engine Management Unit.
All from the comfort of an office environment.I am not a financial adviser and neither do I play one on television. I might occasionally give bad advice but at least it's free.
Like all religions, the Faith of the Invisible Pink Unicorns is based upon both logic and faith. We have faith that they are pink; we logically know that they are invisible because we can't see them.0 -
A software engineer is valueless in this country unless you know .Net and MVC. Anything else you may as well quit the field now.
A true software developer in the past will have been cutting projects in C/C++, by far the most challenging language of all time - and portable to some other environments. Now it's all C#/MVC.
Don't have those? Quit now and become and all singing and dancing prime-time TV fool every single brain celled teen want to be, it might get you the gig.0 -
makeyourdaddyproud wrote: »A software engineer is valueless in this country unless you know .Net and MVC. Anything else you may as well quit the field now.
With due respect, cobblers. We work in a mixture of C, C++ and assembler. We also do a bit of Python for GUIs but mostly these fancy languages don't work for the machines that people tend to carry around nowadays.
If you apply for a job with us, you'll get a C test online before interview and then at interview a combination of C, C++, assembler, Verilog/VHDL, and "whatever" based on what the job is and what you were rash enough to claim experience in on your CV.
Those wanting "webby" jobs may find they need whatever is the currently trendy "agile on rails" language, but down to earth engineering needs down to earth languages.I am not a financial adviser and neither do I play one on television. I might occasionally give bad advice but at least it's free.
Like all religions, the Faith of the Invisible Pink Unicorns is based upon both logic and faith. We have faith that they are pink; we logically know that they are invisible because we can't see them.0 -
IT... just look at heartbleed the same basic error that was around 30-40 years ago, the incompetence in the IT industry keeps a lot of people employed.
it's not just software
millenium bridge, basic error
hubble, basic error
most of the stuff you buy is designed to fail these days
a lot through design not incompetence as they remove repairable.
Good engineering is about the basics of product design, manufacturing processes, repair, maintenance, life cycles, traceability, ...0 -
Perhaps, if you can't see beyond MS Windows, anyway.makeyourdaddyproud wrote: »A software engineer is valueless in this country unless you know .Net and MVC. Anything else you may as well quit the field now.
A true software developer in the past will have been cutting projects in C/C++, by far the most challenging language of all time - and portable to some other environments. Now it's all C#/MVC.
Don't have those? Quit now and become and all singing and dancing prime-time TV fool every single brain celled teen want to be, it might get you the gig.
Conveniently forgetting Java, Oracle, the burgeoning big data systems, tablets, the upcoming wearables take-on, Linux-based appliances (I've just had an update pushed out to my Sky box), and so-on.0 -
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dave4545454 wrote: »Whereas you're still unemployed and unemployable.
Sorry chap, being a volunteer does not mean you are in employment. If you have really been out of work for twenty years I'd say you're pretty unemployable!0
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