Shortage of engineers is getting worse

pinkshoes

I LOVED my job in engineering, was good at it, and worked hard.

The company I worked for was short staffed, partly due to a lack of experienced design engineers, and partly because they treated people like cr*p!

They decided to solve their staff shortage by (illegally) forcing my part time hours back to full time, so I had to quit, and have since retrained as a teacher.

The manager has now filled the office with "product designers" who can make things look very pretty (important!), but have very little grasp of complicated mechanics, so they can't get the devices to work. And they wonder why the directors are breathing down their neck for new product releases...!

Most the people I studied engineering with didn't go into engineering - most went into finance and similar careers as they pay much better!

In Germany, engineers are given a title for their name!

malc_b

gadgetmind wrote: »

Perhaps not, but this is to a certain extent due to misuse of the word "engineer". One of my Polish employees refused to let a BT technicial into the house because they guy said "BT Engineer" at the door. In Poland, calling yourself an engineer when you aren't is like misusing the title "Doctor".

Maybe my perspective is unusual, but I don't see much different in this regard between US and UK.

I would agree with you about engineer is misused in UK (I'm CEng which is protected name but never asked for by employers). I thought USA had PE (Professional Engineer) but may be that is as under used as UK's CEng.

Still in USA engineers can aim for silicon valley and $100K starting salaries. I would see it like the law in UK. It looks a good job so smart people go for it. In the reality only a few probably make the large sums but it all about the perception. Until engineering is perceived as a good career choice we'll continue to have a skills shortage.

gadgetmind

I do employ people in silicon valley, and salaries are high as demand is even greater than here.

But between job security that I mentioned already, and the sky high costs of things like accommodation, health and car insurance, etc. the standard of living isn't far different. Other parts of the USA fair better in this regard IME.

I also observe a far smaller delta between starting pay and pay for highly experienced engineers in the USA. In the UK, we do pay fresh graduates well over UK national average salary but it certainly doesn't matching grad starting pay in the USA. However, for the high achievers, we then have faster pay rises, which narrows the gap pretty rapidly.

motorguy

dave4545454 wrote: »

I graduated with a first class honours manufacturing engineering degree from a russell group uni and was top of the year but it was during the last recession. I have worked constantly for the last 20 years in the volunteer sector and have never been unemployed.

But you get £0 pay for that, and instead claim benefits whilst "looking for a job" as charity work doesnt impact your benefits?

Correct?

kittykarate

Based on what I've seen in the IT industry, no-one seems to want to train/work with fresh graduates any more, and seems to expect people to pop out with 3 years experience.

When I were a lass (and dinosaurs roamed the earth) you could get a low paid starter job, with a minimum requirement of a 2:2 in an appropriate subject. Company would take on a group of graduates for 2 years, and keep the ones who kept up and picked up the work. However this approach involved the company investing in these graduates, and now it seems 'easier' for them to grab a guy from India/Latvia etc. who can hit the ground running (in theory). Without these starter roles we will never have experienced engineers based in the UK.

gadgetmind

kittykarate wrote: »

Based on what I've seen in the IT industry, no-one seems to want to train/work with fresh graduates any more, and seems to expect people to pop out with 3 years experience.

After a three year degree, they should certainly be able to show that they've been exposed to their chosen subject for three years, and demonstrate at least some interest/experience that goes beyond sitting in lectures.

If they don't really love the subject, then they will struggle at every stage. If they do love the subject, then they will have already started to explore interesting corners and revel in the recondite.

now it seems 'easier' for them to grab a guy from India/Latvia etc. who can hit the ground running (in theory).

It's not that it's easier, it's just that if you limit you recruitment "net" to just the UK, you'll be turning away a load of good people, and you really can't afford to be doing that.

Without these starter roles we will never have experienced engineers based in the UK.

Starter roles are fine, but we have neither the skills, not the time, nor the motivation, to get involved in remedial education.

BillJones

gadgetmind wrote: »

Starter roles are fine, but we have neither the skills, not the time, nor the motivation, to get involved in remedial education.

This has been a problem for at least 20 years. I was the first year to do GCSEs, and my university had to ratchet up the number of courses in the first year to get us up to normal first year standards. In subsequent years it got worse, and the course was extended to four years.

My intake was about as good as it got in the UK that year, and eve we were coming out of school unprepared for what the University needed. It seems that things have continued down the same path, and that we now have all too few people emerging from their degrees ready to make the same impact that graduates once did.

[Deleted User]

gadgetmind wrote: »

What do we class as low pay? We pay placement students £14kpa, graduates £28k(ish), and most who've been with us for three years are soaring past £35k. The max without moving to management (people, projects, both) is around £55k-£60k.

I thought this was good but maybe I've lost track of the value of money!

Salaries in England are pretty dire compared to America, especially in technology fields. Less than $50k (£30k) for a university graduate in a country with a very high cost of living is not good at all. Anyone with good (not great, or impressive, or award winning, just good that can be self taught) programming skills can walk into a $50k+ job in America, university graduates command much better salaries. I have a high school drop out friend in America making $60k in a junior developer position, he walked into that job at 18 to a $50k salary with no prior professional experience, he's only been there for a year and makes more than a graduate would in England! The state that he lives in also has a very low cost of living, far lower than England.

I'm fortunate enough to work for an American company (remotely) so I live in England on an American salary, but I've been considering what I want to do long term -- which is most likely software development somewhere in England -- and it scares me just how much I'm going to have to sacrifice to stay in England.

A fairly average salary for a person working in technology in Huntsville, AL is $60,000... but because of the cost of living of England someone would need to earn the equivalent to $100,000 in England to maintain the same quality of life: £60,000 in England is more than you pay unless someone goes into management!

I guess ultimately most people don't have the option to abandon England for greener pastures so comparing American vs. England salaries is pointless, but still, England is a bad place to be a skilled worker. The only reason to stay in England is it's a better place to be a citizen than America... but sometimes I wonder if it's worth it.

prowla

The last govenment encouraged companies to import cheap labour, which drove people away from the disciplines, on the basis they would be undercut.

The government and companies viewed skilled workers as a drain on business instead of an asset.

We're now seeing the results of that stupidity.

gadgetmind

BillJones wrote: »

we were coming out of school unprepared for what the University needed

That's the problem. As every layer "dumbs down", the next level up needs to teach more of the basics that should be prerequisites.

Employers are the end of the line. What should we do? Accept graduates who are little better qualified than A-level students of 20 years ago or recruit from further afield?

However, let me add that we really do find a few (and only a few!) seriously bright UK graduates and we snap them up. This now costs us around £30kpa in year one as they are in short supply, but it shows that the jobs and money are there for those prepared to put in the work.