Shortage of engineers is getting worse

gadgetmind

Linton wrote: »

you are likely to give better education in the realities of real time parallel programming than students would get from a course which covers a wide range of other topics from the theory of Turing machines to language design.

I'd rather put someone on writing a compiler optimiser or Just-In-Time compiler who actually does understand language theory, or at least can convince me they can learn it quickly and become world-class over 5+ years.

gadgetmind

Prothet_of_Doom wrote: »

Sounds like Freelancing to me :rotfl:

Yes, there is more of that feel to the employment market out there. They all focus on job title far more than in the UK as they want to show progression on their "resume" for when they next jump ship or get given the boot.

TrickyWicky

gadgetmind wrote: »

and that yes, they do have to teach about parallel programming, critical sections, semaphores, caches, memory coherency, and the like.

Yet someone like me who knows about that stuff you wouldn't give a chance to at all because I don't have a degree and you openly admit that those with degrees aren't being taught about it.

I think it's employers like you / yours that are responsible for many people in this country loosing hope and giving up.

I've given up on getting into IT, I don't put enthusiasm into projects anymore (whats the point?) and I have no intention of even trying to get in now. If you want your stupid moron degree graduates who are clueless then thats your problem. In the meantime, stop complaining that you can't get the right people because you've set your expectations so high. Many folks don't want to get into £Thounsands of debt just to please you and your requirements.

As for non IT positions, my neighbour qualified as an electrician a couple of years ago. He's a real grafter but now works night shifts in the local cosmetics factory purely because he doesn't like being an electrician. He did a few jobs and the industry burnt him. The last one he had was paying him less than the NMW claiming that he was still 'learning'. If thats what you people are going to do with engineers that you claim you're done your best to find and recruit then it's no surprise that you'll struggle to keep them.

Bottom line is that if someone spends years getting qualified (which isn't cheap) and you then treat them like dirt, of course they're not going to want to bother and yes you will find you have staffing issues. Some employers can't understand the concept of being 'nice' to their staff.

C_Mababejive

Why is it that the holding of an Engineering degree is seen as the pinnacle of employability in the industry? Why arent companies growing experienced people within the workforce instead of sideloading brand new graduates?

gadgetmind

TrickyWicky wrote: »

Yet someone like me who knows about that stuff you wouldn't give a chance to at all because I don't have a degree

I couldn't employ someone without a degree for a graduate role, but certainly could for an experienced role. I've also had degree dropouts on our grad programme but did have to defend this decision to CEO level.

you openly admit that those with degrees aren't being taught about it.

Most are but sadly some aren't, which is why we need to set tests at interview. It's also why we engage with various universities (including the one I attended) to help steer their syllabuses towards what our sector of modern industry needs. Of course, others sectors have different needs, which has to be kept in mind.

I think it's employers like you / yours that are responsible for many people in this country loosing hope and giving up.

Yes, how dare we demand relevant qualifications and proven aptitude!

In the meantime, stop complaining that you can't get the right people because you've set your expectations so high.

I think our expectations are entirely reasonable.

The last one he had was paying him less than the NMW claiming that he was still 'learning'. If thats what you people are going to do with engineers that you claim you're done your best to find and recruit then it's no surprise that you'll struggle to keep them.

We pay placement students £14k, which is more than NMW. (And electricians aren't generally engineers.)

Bottom line is that if someone spends years getting qualified (which isn't cheap) and you then treat them like dirt

We treat them like valued employees that we both nurture and work hard to retain. In many cases they are also close friends.

gadgetmind

C_Mababejive wrote: »

Why is it that the holding of an Engineering degree is seen as the pinnacle of employability in the industry?

Because the modern world requires shedloads of engineers!

Why arent companies growing experienced people within the workforce instead of sideloading brand new graduates?

I can't speak for other companies, but we do both. We have an across the board "feed in" of a certain percentage of graduates per year to fuel growth and then also pull in experienced hires around which to form teams in new areas. Sadly, we also have to do some replacement of experienced hires, but turnover is usually at a fraction of the industry norm because we treat people well.

I say "usually" as we also make a fair few acquisitions for various reasons and these always cause a disturbance in the force no matter how hard to work to try and prevent it.

dave4545454

jacques_chirac wrote: »

I would expect your knowledge and skills to be out of date, given that you claim to have been on the dole for twenty years.

I graduated with a first class honours manufacturing engineering degree from a russell group uni and was top of the year but it was during the last recession. I have worked constantly for the last 20 years in the volunteer sector and have never been unemployed.

dave4545454

gadgetmind wrote: »

How to tally our experience and that of other engineering companies of finding it hard to find good people, with some graduates saying they are struggling to find work, I really don't know.

I think a lot of it has to do with the death of manufacturing in this country over the last few decades leaving a lot of graduates unable to find work related to the engineering degree they took.

With 9 million unemployed and another 9 million part time workers (many of which want fulltime) shows how this country is suffering job wise.

C_Mababejive

gadgetmind wrote: »

Because the modern world requires shedloads of engineers!



I can't speak for other companies, but we do both. We have an across the board "feed in" of a certain percentage of graduates per year to fuel growth and then also pull in experienced hires around which to form teams in new areas. Sadly, we also have to do some replacement of experienced hires, but turnover is usually at a fraction of the industry norm because we treat people well.

I say "usually" as we also make a fair few acquisitions for various reasons and these always cause a disturbance in the force no matter how hard to work to try and prevent it.

Sorry..i wasnt clear. What i meant was,,why dont companies invest in their existing employees who may have a wealth of industry experience but dont have that bit of paper i.e a degree? Why is the degree so important when weighed in the balance with industry experience? surely the investment in existing employees would have a much better payback?

gadgetmind

C_Mababejive wrote: »

What i meant was,,why dont companies invest in their existing employees who may have a wealth of industry experience but dont have that bit of paper i.e a degree?

In our case it's because close on 100% of our existing employees do have degrees. A fair few will also have multiple degrees (and/or masters) and there are lots of PhDs around too.

We do invest in existing employees but this is to get them far beyond degree level rather than to "backfill" them up to it.