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Shortage of engineers is getting worse
Comments
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Perhaps things have changed since my time 40 years ago, but then Computer Science at the prestigious universities wasnt where you were taught how to program computers to solve real world problems, it was seen more as an academic subject. If you wanted to program you went to a poly. Some of them (now universities) achieved a very high reputation in that field.
Looking at a report into starting salaries it would seem that your starting salaries are pretty average. If you want the best you need to pay the best. And until engineers are top earners the best will go elsewhere and you will have to train the average yourself.0 -
Perhaps things have changed since my time 40 years ago, but then Computer Science at the prestigious universities wasnt where you were taught how to program computers to solve real world problems
I studied CS at a Russell Group University in the early 80s and being able to write s/w to solve problems was definitely a key part of the subject. I set up my first software company during my final year.
Yes, you need the strong theoretical background, but having all of this and not learning how to use it is like spending three years studying juggling and never actually learning how to juggle.
We expect people to be able to demonstrate "juggling" prowess at interview.Looking at a report into starting salaries it would seem that your starting salaries are pretty average. If you want the best you need to pay the best.
We do monitor these surveys (none of which agree) but we also know what people are offered elsewhere. We're competitive with others in our industry when geography is taken into account.. We also have a very good "package" and also an aggressive salary "escalator" for those who prove they really can come up with the goods.
But yes, competition is rapidly pushing up salaries as there just aren't enough CS and EE grads to go around.And until engineers are top earners the best will go elsewhere and you will have to train the average yourself.
We're actually good at taking the above average and turning them into the top notch. We actively avoid "plodders".I am not a financial adviser and neither do I play one on television. I might occasionally give bad advice but at least it's free.
Like all religions, the Faith of the Invisible Pink Unicorns is based upon both logic and faith. We have faith that they are pink; we logically know that they are invisible because we can't see them.0 -
gadgetmind wrote: »
We do monitor these surveys (none of which agree) but we also know what people are offered elsewhere. We're competitive with others in our industry when geography is taken into account......
....
We're actually good at taking the above average and turning them into the top notch. We actively avoid "plodders".
But you arent just competing for the best with other companies in your industry. The best students can take their pick from a much wider range of opportunities.
And until engineering of any kind is seen as somewhere to make the best money it wont attract the best students to take the courses. Until it does I guess your best bet is to get the "above average" and turn them into something special.0 -
But you arent just competing for the best with other companies in your industry. The best students can take their pick from a much wider range of opportunities.
Maybe but we do cool stuff.
And until engineering of any kind is seen as somewhere to make the best money it wont attract the best students to take the courses.
At some point (but probably when I'm retired!) I'll describe some of the cars in our car park. The money may not be in investment banker territory but we have better job security!
And (of course) the skills people acquire with us equip them brilliantly to start their own companies, or even work with us to get funding for a spin off.I am not a financial adviser and neither do I play one on television. I might occasionally give bad advice but at least it's free.
Like all religions, the Faith of the Invisible Pink Unicorns is based upon both logic and faith. We have faith that they are pink; we logically know that they are invisible because we can't see them.0 -
A lot of our Jobs are over swamped with paper qualifications which mean youngsters have to fund themselves through universities for years just to get a start on low pay.
This has been pushed by the college and education (industry)
The old school way was you left school, started as an apprentice (real one) and they sent you one day a week to college.
Unless we can very quickly return to the old school ways, which still work elsewhere in the world we are not going to compete in a global market.
The over qualification of jobs is what is killing industry, you do not need a degree to lay bricks.Be happy...;)0 -
spacey2012 wrote: »youngsters have to fund themselves through universities for years just to get a start on low pay
What do we class as low pay? We pay placement students £14kpa, graduates £28k(ish), and most who've been with us for three years are soaring past £35k. The max without moving to management (people, projects, both) is around £55k-£60k.
I thought this was good but maybe I've lost track of the value of money!I am not a financial adviser and neither do I play one on television. I might occasionally give bad advice but at least it's free.
Like all religions, the Faith of the Invisible Pink Unicorns is based upon both logic and faith. We have faith that they are pink; we logically know that they are invisible because we can't see them.0 -
gadgetmind wrote: »What do we class as low pay? We pay placement students £14kpa, graduates £28k(ish), and most who've been with us for three years are soaring past £35k. The max without moving to management (people, projects, both) is around £55k-£60k.
I thought this was good but maybe I've lost track of the value of money!
I think it is a mistake to regard management as a career move beyond technical work and I thought that view was on its way out. The company I worked for regarded management as a distinct skill with its own career path, not a step up for someone with high technical skills. The implication is that the manager could be less well paid than the technicians who reported to him/her.
A max of £55-£60K could be normal for a senior technical job in industry, I dont know, but it would be pretty low for someone in fianance. Where do you want the best people to work?0 -
I think it is a mistake to regard management as a career move beyond technical work and I thought that view was on its way out.
As someone creeps past 50, it's perfectly normal that they're going to gain skills in managing teams but perhaps not be able to focus so much on individual technical areas.
My £55k wasn't for a senior role but for someone who refuses to take on any responsibility and instead wants to manage no-one and nothing other than themselves.A max of £55-£60K could be normal for a senior technical job in industry, I dont know, but it would be pretty low for someone in fianance. Where do you want the best people to work?
I have a senior technical job, and earn more than anyone in finance including CFO, but I'm not exactly your normal techy.
As for paying a bean counter £55k, that's just madness and needs to be stopped. OK, if said BC is up to M&A I can see it, but not just for knowing how to drive Excel, which is all most can do IMO.I am not a financial adviser and neither do I play one on television. I might occasionally give bad advice but at least it's free.
Like all religions, the Faith of the Invisible Pink Unicorns is based upon both logic and faith. We have faith that they are pink; we logically know that they are invisible because we can't see them.0 -
Well they will choose the easiest one to complete, history, social science ...
My daughter, completely off her own bat, is now in her second year of medicine. Yes, study what you like, good advice, but I also taught her to tackle the difficult stuff at every level.I am not a financial adviser and neither do I play one on television. I might occasionally give bad advice but at least it's free.
Like all religions, the Faith of the Invisible Pink Unicorns is based upon both logic and faith. We have faith that they are pink; we logically know that they are invisible because we can't see them.0 -
jamesmorgan wrote: »
It doesn't look like engineering, and in particular Computer Science lead to better job prospects. Even the much derided Media Studies seems to be a better degree for employability.
Well, many areas in Computer science and IT used to be in demand / shortage a few years ago, but majority are not anymore.
Engineering is a very wide subject. But many subjects in engineering is in shortage in the UK
If for instance, you are talking about Nuclear Engineer, Electrical Power System Engineer, Engineer in Oil and Gas industries such as Petroleum engineer, aerospace they are in real shortage. Now are you going to blame the immigrants who are invited to fill this shortage ?
Here is the list of Shortage Occupation List from home office:
http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/sitecontent/documents/workingintheuk/shortageoccupationlistnov11.pdf0
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