ParkingEye Ticket - help would be much appreciated!

Chickabiddybex

Here's what happened:

The driver was going to a restaurant for a work meeting type thing. The driver parked in Castlegate Retail Park in Huddersfield and went in to the restaurant. I don't believe the restaurant is technically part of the retail park.
The driver did not see any signs about parking because it was dark. It was the first time the driver had ever parked there and did not even realise it was for a retail park (it was dark!) The driver concluded that parking was unrestricted and stayed for 3 hours.

The driver has now received a letter saying there is a fine of £85 to pay (or £50 if paid withinh 14 days of date issued) as max stay was 2 hours.

I don't know how to find out who owns this car park to contact them!

The driver doesn't have a receipt for the day as The driver didn't pay the cheque however I can get a copy. But I don't think it will help in this situation as the restaurant is not the land owner.

Can The driver appeal on the grounds that The driver did not see the signs? Also I believe the charge is excessive. The shops in the retail park weren't even open at the time! The driver wasn't stopping any customers from parking. There were no costs incurred by the land owner or ParkingEye.

Is the 14 days I have to pay the lesser charge going to stay the same even though appealing might take that long?

Any further advice?

Coupon-mad

I don't know how to find out who owns this car park to contact them!

Doesn't matter. You want the managing agents if you are to complain, and they are easily found by Googling the name of any retail park, look for newspaper articles or retail advertising bumf results. Usually gives a contact, but you don't HAVE to bother if you have no receipts anyway.

Is the 14 days I have to pay the lesser charge going to stay the same even though appealing might take that long?

Who cares? You won't be paying PE a penny. You will beat them at POPLA appeal stage because they have made no loss.

You should simply appeal online AS THE REGISTERED KEEPER. You can indeed appeal on the grounds that the driver did not see the signs because they were unlit and the charge is excessive and not related to any possible 'loss'.

In the meantime read up on current threads about how to win at POPLA. It is imperative you use the winning words at that stage - start by reading the end (most recent posts) on the 'POPLA decisions' sticky thread at the top. You will soon see a pattern of 'no genuine pre-estimate of loss' ('GPEOL' to us) and recently 'unlit signage' etc. as winning appeal points.

We win at POPLA 100% of the time so take your eye OFF that 'discount!!

MothballsWallet

Have you had a look around this board for the same location?

The car park's in England, is the driver English resident as well?

Sounds like a soft appeal to the parking firm stating the no genuine pre-estimate of loss, inadequate/unclear signage (if it's possible to get photos, please do so, that'll come in useful at POPLA appeal stage).

I'd wait until someone like Stroma, Coupon-Mad or Guys Dad can have a look at this as well in case I've missed anything or got it wrong (wouldn't be the first time).

ParkingEye have started doing court recently, so you and the driver shouldn't ignore this. Also, how long ago was this and has a Notice to Keeper (NtK) been received? (This should be received between day 29-56 after the parking event, which is counted as day 0, for it to count.)

Coupon-mad

(This should be received between day 29-56 after the parking event, which is
counted as day 0, for it to count.)

Not unless it was a case with a windscreen ticket first, which this wasn't. PE had to get this NTK to the OP by day 15 (and I expect they did).

Chickabiddybex

Driver is English, yes.
There was no windscreen ticket and I'm not sure what the NTK is but a letter entitled Parking Charge Notice has been received in time.

Guys_Dad

Don't get hung up on the basic facts of your contravention.

The whole raison d'etre for the regulars here is that the PPCs' usual charges of £100 (less 40% for early settlement) is way beyond any reasonable charges. Years ago, they used to deport people to Australia for stealing bread. The punishment was excessive for the crime, so to speak. And you haven't committed any crime.

The PPCs make huge profits from these excess charges - they don't make anything from their "employers".

So, you get the monkey off your back at POPLA with our help. If you can get the real landowner to cancel before then or if you have a genuine appeal that the PPC will concede, then that's a bonus.

So, appeal on the grounds that the driver did not see the unlit signs that you, the keeper, believe must have been non-compliant with the BPA's Code of Practice. Further say that the driver was a genuine customer of the restaurant in question.

You can add that the ensuing charge is not a genuine pre-estimate of loss, that you believe has been accepted by POPLA in recent months. Invite them, on this occasion, to cancel the charge or to supply you with a POPLA code so that you can pursue the matter with the independent adjudicator.

You probably have this in mind anyway, buit it may still behelpful to you and other readers.

Chickabiddybex

So far I have:

Good evening,
I am the registered keeper of this vehicle. I am appealing on the grounds that the driver did not see the signs because it was dark and they were unlit. I believe this is against the BPA's code of practice.
The charge is also excessive and not a genuine pre-estimate of loss.
Please cancel this charge or provide me with a POPLA number.
Thank you

I am struggling to find out who owns the land though.

Guys_Dad

Dear Parking Eye,

I am the registered keeper of this vehicle and I am appealing against this charge.

My challenge is on the grounds that it was dark and your signs were unlit. They were not apparent to driver who was, therefore, not party to any contract that they could not see. I believe the BPA's code of practice requires notices to be of a certain standard, in terms of text size and illumination, which your notices clearly were not.

Furthermore, the charge demanded is also excessive and not a genuine pre-estimate of any loss that may have been incurred.

I would, therefore ask that on this occasion you cancel this charge. If you decline to do this, please provide me with a POPLA code in order that I may make an appeal to the independent adjudicator.


The keeper"


I would go with something like that, obviously adding the refernce number car registration number and your name.

Chickabiddybex

I've just been on street view and the signs actually do have lights over them! (The signs are attached to lamp posts)
The driver definitely did not see them though, perhaps a van was in the way or something else was obscuring the view or one of the lights was not working. It could simply be that the signs are above eyeline and may not have been visible from the car.
(The driver would go back to check but doesn't live very close to the car park.)
If you go on street view you can see the car park. The driver parked in a place with no signs facing them however the driver did drive past 2 of the signs on the way in (but did not see them)
You can see where the driver parked:
http://i44.tinypic.com/2d7wmxt.jpg
On the left row in this picture and as you can see no signs are facing the driver's position.

Does this new information change things? (Sorry for not saying before, I didn't think to look on street view til now!)

Coupon-mad

Just change the sentence:

'My challenge is on the grounds that it was dark and your signs were unlit.'

to:

'My challenge is on the grounds that the signs were not seen because they were not prominent enough. I have been on Google StreetView and can see that your signs are ridiculously high up on posts and not within a driver's eyeline at all...'


{then continue as before with GuysDad's suggested wording}.

It really doesn't matter! You are only fishing for a POPLA code at this stage and the most important thing is not to infer who was driving, and to have at least one appeal point (anything).

At POPLA stage it will be more detailed:

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/62180281#Comment_62180281

HTH

jeanraffio

And don't forget to appeal to the car park owner first thing in the morning explaining that:

a) you were a genuine customer (receipts etc)
b) you're unhappy at being treated like this
c) signage was poor so how were you to know there was a time limit?

And don't allow to be fobbed off (#1 response is 'Take it up with the PPC' - don't accept that - these companies employ these PPCs!).

Multi-retail units are sometimes harder to crack than individual shops etc but it can be done and these companies can cancel these charges with one simple phone call.