Mr and Mrs K's New Journey to a Debt Free Life.

cte1111

A list of the clubs at my children's state school (we live in Manchester, the school teaches children from very mixed backgrounds, including a number of children who speak English as a second language):

Art, cookery, cricket, typing, netball, percussion and singing (for the youngest), athletics, sculpture, book club, gardening, film club, football, drama, hockey, violin, recorders, samba drumming, choir, karate, comedy club, pentathlon, yoga, dance, cheerleading.

My daughter is bright and has always been accommodated at the school. She and a small group of other children in her class have worked at a level well above that expected for their age group. She has been achieving at secondary school levels in the standard tests, since the end of year 4. She's also happy and enjoys going to school. She loves her friends, some of whom have been teaching her basic Arabic. She loved going to an Eid party and recently told me lots of interesting information about Judaism, which they studied last term, along with a visit to a synagogue and a trip to the theatre to see a show about Jewish children having to leave their families in the war.

My son has generally been behind on milestones, he has also been well taught and cared for by staff at the school. When he had issues with toilet training, his teachers and other staff helped us work with him to get him clean and dry. He struggled with reading but had extra help from staff and volunteers. He can now read well and is just a little below where the curriculum says he should be for his age. He is a happy, active little boy and often one of the best at running and swimming (they walk to the local pool for lessons once a week).

They've worked with local secondary schools to do Shakespeare productions and to use their IT suite to do animation. They regularly have visiting experts including a graffiti artist, chocolate making, Greek history workshop as well as the usual visits to local historic buildings, museums, zoos, the seaside, etc.

I'm not always 100% happy with the school and on occasions have complained about issues but not about the level of education that they receive.

State schools can be very good.

arsenalbarnie

Hi Alex, I sense everyone is not getting at you as such, but feeling they as me, need to come out of the woodwork. I went to both state and a private school ( scholarship other wise no chance). Then parents decided after two years we were moving to another county to run a pub. So I went to the local 'village' secondary school and none the worse for it. Family circumstances meant that at 18, I couldn't wait to leave home and did so. Had a reasonable career in NHS until I met my knight in shining armour. Not so shining now!

Over to my 5 children. All state educated. Eldest got a place at one of the best grammar schools in the country. He didn't want to go. I was devastated, but as we have a perfectly good secondary within walking distance I reluctantly agreed he could go there. They all went there. I have now realised that once they go to university, there aren't any differences. If your child is bright, they tend to do well anywhere, with a supportive family of course. I have had two graduate in 2:1 degrees from red brick universities. The third is studying at Bath university with lots of ex private school pupils who call 'him posh'! He had twoA*'s and a B at Alevel btw. No 4 son is predicted to get all A's at AS level. Daughter no 5 heading that way, also doing grade 5 piano soon at 14, been learning since the age of 11. We are a well off family, but no way could we afford private education. We can however, let them go on any trips they want to, so a happy medium I think.daughter off to Belgium next week for WW1 battlefields trip. Also will be skiing next year. DS4 off to Paris and then New York in October. DS3 had a great time in Prague( looking round Skoda factory!) to name but a few. Rugby tours to Australia and South Africa too for older two and ski trips every year. Our local 'excellant, outstanding' grammar school is mainly full of children from private schools. Parents send them private for primary and get them tutored as hell to get them into the grammar, no other schools match it apparently. I say it's because they get the cream of the crop so they should get results! Poor kids I say, pressurised from word go. Lots of them are perfectly happy there, but equally, there are many happy, intelligent kids at my local secondary school. :T

Food for thought. Whatever you do Alex, am sure you are a great dad, just don't let him end up being pushed and pressurised. Life is for living and we never end up doing what our parents want us to do. My mum wanted me to be an air stewardess

mum2one

You know we had to change school with DD, she changed in yr 5, (10yrs old) athough if the circumstances had been different I would have moved her earlier.

The school she is at now, has an outstanding report from ofsted, is full, the head is having to turn children and parents away. There are after school clubs, homework clubs, trips, activities, and each pupil has their target. In the year that she has been there she has come on leaps and bounds, although she was always above target, at 8 she had a reading age of 11.

The school that one of DDs friends goes to, they have just had an intake - and one of the children is in yr 6, - the parents can no longer afford the fees....

There are some really good state schools out there, generally village schools do really well. x

AlexLK

MrsCautious wrote: »

Hi, I hope you don't mind but I would like to add my 2p about private/state school. We considered both private and state for my daughters and visited both. I felt the primary school and subsequent secondary school they have gone to was superior to the private school for lots of reasons and yes absolutely support my daughters in maximising their potential, in my opinion that's what most parents want for their children and there are plenty of state schools, I would say the vast majority, where this is the norm. Our school has been rated as Outstanding by Ofsted, academically it is strong, there is an excellent ethos and discipline about the school and plenty of extra curricular activities, for example they are currently working towards a Duke of Edinburgh award. They are also working towards their GCSEs and included in sets to help them apply for places at a 'redbrick' university. Sometimes parents can decide based on the strengths and weaknesses of their individual local private/state schools as to what is best for their family as opposed to blanket assumptions or knowledge about either sector as a whole.Not sure my ramblings here help but I wanted to respond as it certainly isn't my experience that the only good thing about state education is that it's free. My daughters have work experience lined up with a solicitor as they have set their hopes on a career in law, this has been arranged by the school and they took part in a day at crown court where pupils from state and private schools played different roles in a trial, I think this sort of thing is excellent, and I think it's a shame sometimes that this standard of aspiration/achievement in state schools can be overlooked by the media who are more likely to focus on the negative. One of the best things the school has done recently is take history students to the battlefields of the Somme, a deeply affecting experience, teachers have been leading trips there for around 20 years. It's a brilliant school and so are plenty of others.

I remember the head at the private school saying to me that after love, the next thing we should give our children is a good education. I totally agreed with her and chose a different school. Parents at her school were making lots of sacrifices to send their children there as they want the best for their children. Parents of state school children want the best for their children too, and work with the school to make that happen. I'm proud of my daughters with all they have gone through (losing their dad) and blown away by their school, certain parts of what we have gone through remain a blur but I do know their school has been wonderfully supportive.

Far from 'stifling' a bright child, my experience, and that of plenty more parents, is that state school can help encourage, push and nurture that child with academic excellence and a raft of well-rounded activities, in a very caring environment. Poorly performing state schools may hit the headlines but that's not representative of the reality for millions of hardworking kids and teachers.

Thank you for your opinion. I do not doubt there are some good state schools out there. However, we did go to see the local village school's Christmas performance and I was not impressed.

mrsscattercushion wrote: »

Hello Alex, I hope you have a productive weekend. Ultimately well done for wanting your son to have the best opportunities he can...my state school didn't stifle me, I was stretched and went on ultimately to get a first class honours degree. Given what I see every day, the most important thing for your son is the love, safety, security and encouragement from you ~ he'll value that and will teach him more about life than anywhere else


Well done on the debt busting and attitude ~ it is v hard when a partner doesn't share your views/aims/ambitions (have been there, finally making progress on that 7 years on) but keep plugging away doing what you are doing

Hi there,

The weekend has been rather unproductive, unfortunately.

Yes, it is most difficult and I have failed myself somewhat this weekend with regards to trying to live a more frugal life. Mrs. K. and I seem to share little so far as common aims go for the moment.

theoretica wrote: »

I don't follow your logic, Alex. You write that you feel your parents' opinion on their grandson's schooling matters, but for them to pay for it would be a 'burden' and a 'final option' while pressurising your wife who 'doesn't understand what our priorities should be' to make sacrifices for this.

Just how long do you think it would take your bright boy to pick up that his mother resents paying for his education?

I would like to provide my son with the education I had for various reasons. I do not particularly want my parents to pick up the bill, even though they have said they begrudgingly would. They think I should be paying for his education, not them. As for my wife, she simply doesn't see "the point" in spending sums into six figures on our son's schooling, when he could get it for "free". Unfortunately, she believes that she turned out OK and so should he, whereas she sees that I have perhaps not done so well.

AlexLK

theoretica wrote: »

I am sure you are familiar with the plaint of music teachers that children are too busy to practice with a different activity every night. This is too often an unfortunate result of giving them every opportunity.

The best things my schools, both private and state, did for me was leave me plenty of free time - and the run of the library and indeed the science labs when I could justify it. For the record I chose to leave my private school at 16 as it did not provide what I wanted, went to a state school that did and thence to Oxbridge.

:rotfl: Yes, got a few none practisers due to "other commitments", or worse "other "clubs"". I would agree it is a result of too much opportunity to "try" everything going. I do not count learning to play an instrument as a "club", to be viewed with the same priority as going to Beavers or Rainbows once a week.

Free time was not something I had much of during my school years but no one did, the hours were long. Holidays were long too but I was shipped off to my Aunt's and wished for nothing more than to be at school. :rotfl:

heartbreak_star wrote: »

I was absolutely maximised.

I took GCSE and A-level Electronics both a year early, and placed in theYoung Engineer for Britain competition when I was 15. I was encouraged in dance, swimming and badminton - had to give up swimming as parents couldn't afford all of them and gave me the choice. Represented school and county at badminton, too *proud*

My earlier schools (I was in a 3-tier system) offered plenty of activities, after-school tutoring if some students were struggling, and arranged loads of field trips themed around subjects - like the mystery weekend where we could only speak French, or the Northumbrian castles so we could learn the history of our House names I certainly never felt like I was deprived in any way, and I also never felt like I had so much on that I couldn't "be a kid" too. My school years were actually pretty good now I look back on it

HBS x

Yours sounds one of the better ones. I actually didn't even know you could do GCSE / A Level Electronics .

cte1111 wrote: »

A list of the clubs at my children's state school (we live in Manchester, the school teaches children from very mixed backgrounds, including a number of children who speak English as a second language):

Art, cookery, cricket, typing, netball, percussion and singing (for the youngest), athletics, sculpture, book club, gardening, film club, football, drama, hockey, violin, recorders, samba drumming, choir, karate, comedy club, pentathlon, yoga, dance, cheerleading.

My daughter is bright and has always been accommodated at the school. She and a small group of other children in her class have worked at a level well above that expected for their age group. She has been achieving at secondary school levels in the standard tests, since the end of year 4. She's also happy and enjoys going to school. She loves her friends, some of whom have been teaching her basic Arabic. She loved going to an Eid party and recently told me lots of interesting information about Judaism, which they studied last term, along with a visit to a synagogue and a trip to the theatre to see a show about Jewish children having to leave their families in the war.

My son has generally been behind on milestones, he has also been well taught and cared for by staff at the school. When he had issues with toilet training, his teachers and other staff helped us work with him to get him clean and dry. He struggled with reading but had extra help from staff and volunteers. He can now read well and is just a little below where the curriculum says he should be for his age. He is a happy, active little boy and often one of the best at running and swimming (they walk to the local pool for lessons once a week).

They've worked with local secondary schools to do Shakespeare productions and to use their IT suite to do animation. They regularly have visiting experts including a graffiti artist, chocolate making, Greek history workshop as well as the usual visits to local historic buildings, museums, zoos, the seaside, etc.

I'm not always 100% happy with the school and on occasions have complained about issues but not about the level of education that they receive.

State schools can be very good.

Thank you for the information.

I do wonder how many praising the state education system have actually experienced anything else? Also, I know I couldn't help but be terribly guilty if my son went to the local village primary and onto the (admittedly good) secondary schools given the opportunities my parents provided for me.

AlexLK

arsenalbarnie wrote: »

Hi Alex, I sense everyone is not getting at you as such, but feeling they as me, need to come out of the woodwork. I went to both state and a private school ( scholarship other wise no chance). Then parents decided after two years we were moving to another county to run a pub. So I went to the local 'village' secondary school and none the worse for it. Family circumstances meant that at 18, I couldn't wait to leave home and did so. Had a reasonable career in NHS until I met my knight in shining armour. Not so shining now!

Over to my 5 children. All state educated. Eldest got a place at one of the best grammar schools in the country. He didn't want to go. I was devastated, but as we have a perfectly good secondary within walking distance I reluctantly agreed he could go there. They all went there. I have now realised that once they go to university, there aren't any differences. If your child is bright, they tend to do well anywhere, with a supportive family of course. I have had two graduate in 2:1 degrees from red brick universities. The third is studying at Bath university with lots of ex private school pupils who call 'him posh'! He had twoA*'s and a B at Alevel btw. No 4 son is predicted to get all A's at AS level. Daughter no 5 heading that way, also doing grade 5 piano soon at 14, been learning since the age of 11. We are a well off family, but no way could we afford private education. We can however, let them go on any trips they want to, so a happy medium I think.daughter off to Belgium next week for WW1 battlefields trip. Also will be skiing next year. DS4 off to Paris and then New York in October. DS3 had a great time in Prague( looking round Skoda factory!) to name but a few. Rugby tours to Australia and South Africa too for older two and ski trips every year. Our local 'excellant, outstanding' grammar school is mainly full of children from private schools. Parents send them private for primary and get them tutored as hell to get them into the grammar, no other schools match it apparently. I say it's because they get the cream of the crop so they should get results! Poor kids I say, pressurised from word go. Lots of them are perfectly happy there, but equally, there are many happy, intelligent kids at my local secondary school. :T

Food for thought. Whatever you do Alex, am sure you are a great dad, just don't let him end up being pushed and pressurised. Life is for living and we never end up doing what our parents want us to do. My mum wanted me to be an air stewardess

Thank you, I understand where you are coming from in terms of some kids being pressurised. Whilst I have expectations of my son, I do not wish to pressurise him into a particular career, just for him to enjoy and get the most out of his schooling.

mum2one wrote: »

You know we had to change school with DD, she changed in yr 5, (10yrs old) athough if the circumstances had been different I would have moved her earlier.

The school she is at now, has an outstanding report from ofsted, is full, the head is having to turn children and parents away. There are after school clubs, homework clubs, trips, activities, and each pupil has their target. In the year that she has been there she has come on leaps and bounds, although she was always above target, at 8 she had a reading age of 11.

The school that one of DDs friends goes to, they have just had an intake - and one of the children is in yr 6, - the parents can no longer afford the fees....

There are some really good state schools out there, generally village schools do really well. x

Thank you, I do think things like reading ages is perhaps more to do with how much reading they do rather than the schools themselves.

The village school has a good OFSTED report but having been to the Christmas performance I thought both the pupils, parents and teachers appeared to be of a very low calibre. Plenty of parents didn't manage to present themselves very well at all.

VJsmum

AlexLK wrote: »

The village school has a good OFSTED report but having been to the Christmas performance I thought both the pupils, parents and teachers appeared to be of a very low calibre. Plenty of parents didn't manage to present themselves very well at all.

Un Be Liev Able. :mad::mad:

I wish you well, Alex, I really do. But I am going to have to leave you here.

To judge people like that.....

Words fail me..

AlexLK

VJsmum: I am sorry you have taken my comments that way, I simply didn't like what I saw for various reasons, some of which I imagine would have concerned many parents; it was nothing short of organised chaos and the less said about the standard of singing the better - it clearly had not been rehearsed well, if at all in parts.

Flm67

VJsmum wrote: »

Un Be Liev Able. :mad::mad:

I wish you well, Alex, I really do. But I am going to have to leave you here.

To judge people like that.....

Words fail me..

De- lurking as I cannot hold my tongue any longer!! Have to say I have to agree with vjsmum.

I often wonder if this diary is a wind up. The guy is an out & out snob and needs a reality check.

That's the mild version of what I am thinking lol.

AlexLK

Flm: Having standards does not automatically make somebody a "snob". Nor do I need a "reality check".

Whilst not all being bad it was not to the standard I would expect or hope for from such an event. I fail to see how my comments were quite this offensive to anybody. After all, if I'd saw that performance and witnessed what seemed like a lack of interest from both parents and staff at a fee paying school, I would also refuse to send my son there.