Mr and Mrs K's New Journey to a Debt Free Life.

littlegreenparrot

You are absolutely right in that Mrs K should not have any more say as a mother, than you should have as a father.

In that position though I would expect to have a full and frank discussion about the issue, both parties trying to have an open mind, looking clearly at the pros and cons, with what was best for the child at the centre.
If this hasn't happened, it needs to. You cannot simply assume that someone being aware of attitudes means they agree, there is much that I still fundamentally disagree with DH on, but I married him anyway. One of those things is private education.

If I was presented with a 'fait accompli' this is what will happen regardless, and did not feel listened to, it would be very upsetting. I might well go off in a strop, spend money on frivolous things to try to establish some control over my life, because I was being denied it in other areas. And because I knew it would be annoying, same as I felt annoyed. I might feel that if I spent the money I might get my way as it would make it impossible. I could also feel that I was considered irrelevant, and therefore why hang around to be ignored?

I am not saying this is good, rational, sensible, grown up. But I have done something similar before in a smaller way. DH spent loads of money, I wondered why I was denying myself so much and spent a couple of weeks off the rails. I knew it was silly and did it anyway.

There are reasons people behave the way they do, whether or not they are aware of it. Feelings and attitudes also change, what was ok theoretically might not be ok now its happening.

theoretica

Have you considered discussing with Mrs K asking your parents to set up a trust fund to pay for little K's schooling? As you point out, this money is likely to come to him anyway, and keeping it separate from your family's finances might be a benefit all round.

maman

Excuse me while I have my occasional rant!:o I read the thread regularly but every so often I feel I have to put in my 2p's worth to try and remind you what it's like in the 'real world'.

Alex, I don't think you're ever going to convince your followers on this thread that it's OK to send LittleK to a private school when you have debts.


I have issues with your blanket dismissal of how he might do at a state Primary school (of which I assume you have virtually no knowledge) but I understand that you believe that independent schooling brings advantages (which is correct, only need to look at Cameron et al for that) and you want LittleK to have them.


I commend you and MrsK for saving towards son's education. I think that MrsK does secretly want him to go if only for the reason that being able to 'boast' that her son's at a prep/independent school fits in the WAG/BMW/shopper lifestyle that she loves so much. There are,for example, so many footballers that send their children to Kings School, Chester that it makes my (barrister) nephew whose children are also there look like the poor relation!


I don't commend the fact that you owe money to various people but think it's OK to not pay your debts when you could do so but choose instead to spend beyond your means and save for private education. It irritates me no end when you pay over the odds for food because you and MrsK don't much like cooking. So why should your creditors indulge you???


I think it's a bit of a red herring whether MrsK approves of your plans for LittleK or not. My opinion is that she secretly does and she also knows (as do you) that your parents would gladly fork out for the fees if you and she struggled.


I think this thread is now becoming about personal pride, morality and learning. You know (and we know) that long term you'll inherit from your parents and all you money worries will fade away. They could, of course, recur if you are profligate with your inheritance. Hopefully you'll have the personal pride to clear your debts and be aware that it's somewhat immoral to spend money you don't have. Then your learned frugal ways will make your inheritance last longer.


Jumps off soapbox ('til the next time:o).

AlexLK

heartbreak_star wrote: »

AARGH! I was (am?) intelligent enough that my Mum put me forward for Mensa. She didn't like how the kids in Mensa centres were treated so it never went any further, and I went to a state school. I was NOT stifled. I could read fluently before I was two, apparently (I don't remember, I just can't ever remember NOT being able to read ), and do simple sums and tell the time by that age as well. I was incredibly able, and have a career using my brain now as well as thriving hobbies.

Prep school is not the be-all and end-all, and this is probably the only thing I would agree with Mrs K. on

She does seem incredibly spendy and I think the only way she will change is if something drastic happens (loss of job or credit lines cut off). I hope it doesn't come to that though

Hurrah for eBay and website content That reminds me, I must update the squad site...

Hope the eBaying is paying off and that you all have a great weekend

HBS x

Thank you, HBS. I must admit you are making me feel rather inadequate :rotfl: .

Did you think that your schools provided you with every opportunity to maximise your potential, though?

I hope things do not end up like that, either.

gallygirl wrote: »

It's not just the school fees though Alex, is it? What about:

• Uniform
• Extra-curricular activities
• Weeks away
• Better get a new car so you don't show him up in front of the other parents
• Better move as well so they don't look down on you.

Just how much will they be prepared to shell out? You're very insecure - how long before you start feeling judged because you're lacking the last two?


Also what would you do if your parents changed their will and bypassed you, leaving everything in trust for Little K? How would your plans for the future pan out then?

I do understand there is more than the fees and do have concerns my son would be seen as the "poor kid" in a few years.

My parents only occasionally had new cars when I was at school, yes, some had a brand new car every two years or so. As for my house, it's not much worse than some of my old classmates parents' houses, condition aside. Besides, I do not see why my son would be judged, if he had his friends over to my parents' house most would have worse properties anyhow.

No, I have not considered the possibility of my parents "bypassing" me to leave everything to my son as I am sure they wouldn't do that, especially now I am showing myself to be a responsible individual with money.

littlegreenparrot wrote: »

You are absolutely right in that Mrs K should not have any more say as a mother, than you should have as a father.

In that position though I would expect to have a full and frank discussion about the issue, both parties trying to have an open mind, looking clearly at the pros and cons, with what was best for the child at the centre.
If this hasn't happened, it needs to. You cannot simply assume that someone being aware of attitudes means they agree, there is much that I still fundamentally disagree with DH on, but I married him anyway. One of those things is private education.

If I was presented with a 'fait accompli' this is what will happen regardless, and did not feel listened to, it would be very upsetting. I might well go off in a strop, spend money on frivolous things to try to establish some control over my life, because I was being denied it in other areas. And because I knew it would be annoying, same as I felt annoyed. I might feel that if I spent the money I might get my way as it would make it impossible. I could also feel that I was considered irrelevant, and therefore why hang around to be ignored?

I am not saying this is good, rational, sensible, grown up. But I have done something similar before in a smaller way. DH spent loads of money, I wondered why I was denying myself so much and spent a couple of weeks off the rails. I knew it was silly and did it anyway.

There are reasons people behave the way they do, whether or not they are aware of it. Feelings and attitudes also change, what was ok theoretically might not be ok now its happening.

LittleGreenParrot: Thank you, this gives me lots to think about. However, I fail to see any other "pro" to state education other than it being "free".

AlexLK

theoretica wrote: »

Have you considered discussing with Mrs K asking your parents to set up a trust fund to pay for little K's schooling? As you point out, this money is likely to come to him anyway, and keeping it separate from your family's finances might be a benefit all round.

Not for the moment as the parents paying is kind of a "final option".

maman wrote: »

Excuse me while I have my occasional rant!:o I read the thread regularly but every so often I feel I have to put in my 2p's worth to try and remind you what it's like in the 'real world'.

Alex, I don't think you're ever going to convince your followers on this thread that it's OK to send LittleK to a private school when you have debts.

I have issues with your blanket dismissal of how he might do at a state Primary school (of which I assume you have virtually no knowledge) but I understand that you believe that independent schooling brings advantages (which is correct, only need to look at Cameron et al for that) and you want LittleK to have them.

I commend you and MrsK for saving towards son's education. I think that MrsK does secretly want him to go if only for the reason that being able to 'boast' that her son's at a prep/independent school fits in the WAG/BMW/shopper lifestyle that she loves so much. There are,for example, so many footballers that send their children to Kings School, Chester that it makes my (barrister) nephew whose children are also there look like the poor relation!

I don't commend the fact that you owe money to various people but think it's OK to not pay your debts when you could do so but choose instead to spend beyond your means and save for private education. It irritates me no end when you pay over the odds for food because you and MrsK don't much like cooking. So why should your creditors indulge you???

I think it's a bit of a red herring whether MrsK approves of your plans for LittleK or not. My opinion is that she secretly does and she also knows (as do you) that your parents would gladly fork out for the fees if you and she struggled.

I think this thread is now becoming about personal pride, morality and learning. You know (and we know) that long term you'll inherit from your parents and all you money worries will fade away. They could, of course, recur if you are profligate with your inheritance. Hopefully you'll have the personal pride to clear your debts and be aware that it's somewhat immoral to spend money you don't have. Then your learned frugal ways will make your inheritance last longer.

Jumps off soapbox ('til the next time:o).

I'm not sure how I do not live in the "real world" in all honesty but anyhow ...

Your assumptions would be correct about my knowledge of primary schools. As for my wife, I don't think she really cares but begrudges the amount of money this is going to cost.

With regards to my debts, I am paying them off and hope to be debt free by the end of this year. Considering the amount I owed was almost three times my annual salary, I don't think I'm doing so badly on that front. Tonight we went out for dinner but have vowed to keep that to a once a week occurrence, not exactly an over indulgence.

As for my inheritance "lasting longer", I would not squander it anyway. :mad:

MrsCautious

Hi, I hope you don't mind but I would like to add my 2p about private/state school. We considered both private and state for my daughters and visited both. I felt the primary school and subsequent secondary school they have gone to was superior to the private school for lots of reasons and yes absolutely support my daughters in maximising their potential, in my opinion that's what most parents want for their children and there are plenty of state schools, I would say the vast majority, where this is the norm. Our school has been rated as Outstanding by Ofsted, academically it is strong, there is an excellent ethos and discipline about the school and plenty of extra curricular activities, for example they are currently working towards a Duke of Edinburgh award. They are also working towards their GCSEs and included in sets to help them apply for places at a 'redbrick' university. Sometimes parents can decide based on the strengths and weaknesses of their individual local private/state schools as to what is best for their family as opposed to blanket assumptions or knowledge about either sector as a whole.Not sure my ramblings here help but I wanted to respond as it certainly isn't my experience that the only good thing about state education is that it's free. My daughters have work experience lined up with a solicitor as they have set their hopes on a career in law, this has been arranged by the school and they took part in a day at crown court where pupils from state and private schools played different roles in a trial, I think this sort of thing is excellent, and I think it's a shame sometimes that this standard of aspiration/achievement in state schools can be overlooked by the media who are more likely to focus on the negative. One of the best things the school has done recently is take history students to the battlefields of the Somme, a deeply affecting experience, teachers have been leading trips there for around 20 years. It's a brilliant school and so are plenty of others.

I remember the head at the private school saying to me that after love, the next thing we should give our children is a good education. I totally agreed with her and chose a different school. Parents at her school were making lots of sacrifices to send their children there as they want the best for their children. Parents of state school children want the best for their children too, and work with the school to make that happen. I'm proud of my daughters with all they have gone through (losing their dad) and blown away by their school, certain parts of what we have gone through remain a blur but I do know their school has been wonderfully supportive.

Far from 'stifling' a bright child, my experience, and that of plenty more parents, is that state school can help encourage, push and nurture that child with academic excellence and a raft of well-rounded activities, in a very caring environment. Poorly performing state schools may hit the headlines but that's not representative of the reality for millions of hardworking kids and teachers.

mrsscattercushion

Hello Alex, I hope you have a productive weekend. Ultimately well done for wanting your son to have the best opportunities he can...my state school didn't stifle me, I was stretched and went on ultimately to get a first class honours degree. Given what I see every day, the most important thing for your son is the love, safety, security and encouragement from you ~ he'll value that and will teach him more about life than anywhere else


Well done on the debt busting and attitude ~ it is v hard when a partner doesn't share your views/aims/ambitions (have been there, finally making progress on that 7 years on) but keep plugging away doing what you are doing

theoretica

I don't follow your logic, Alex. You write that you feel your parents' opinion on their grandson's schooling matters, but for them to pay for it would be a 'burden' and a 'final option' while pressurising your wife who 'doesn't understand what our priorities should be' to make sacrifices for this.

Just how long do you think it would take your bright boy to pick up that his mother resents paying for his education?

theoretica

AlexLK wrote: »

Did you think that your schools provided you with every opportunity to maximise your potential, though?

I am sure you are familiar with the plaint of music teachers that children are too busy to practice with a different activity every night. This is too often an unfortunate result of giving them every opportunity.

The best things my schools, both private and state, did for me was leave me plenty of free time - and the run of the library and indeed the science labs when I could justify it. For the record I chose to leave my private school at 16 as it did not provide what I wanted, went to a state school that did and thence to Oxbridge.

heartbreak_star

I was absolutely maximised.

I took GCSE and A-level Electronics both a year early, and placed in theYoung Engineer for Britain competition when I was 15. I was encouraged in dance, swimming and badminton - had to give up swimming as parents couldn't afford all of them and gave me the choice. Represented school and county at badminton, too *proud*

My earlier schools (I was in a 3-tier system) offered plenty of activities, after-school tutoring if some students were struggling, and arranged loads of field trips themed around subjects - like the mystery weekend where we could only speak French, or the Northumbrian castles so we could learn the history of our House names I certainly never felt like I was deprived in any way, and I also never felt like I had so much on that I couldn't "be a kid" too. My school years were actually pretty good now I look back on it

HBS x