Mr and Mrs K's New Journey to a Debt Free Life.

pebbles88

Children's plays, Christmas or otherwise are not ever meant to be high calibre, or any calibre! It's about the having fun, & their family being so proud of seeing them (even if they mess up or their singing is atrocious, young children can't always remember their lines as they get so excited) that they feel their hearts could burst with joy.

Even if any of the parents seemed not your kind of people, that doesn't mean the child will be the same.


How would you have felt if little k was in such a play, & made a mistake? Or didn't sing in time with the others? Regardless of what school he was at?

pickle_me

AlexLK wrote: »

I do wonder how many praising the state education system have actually experienced anything else? Also, I know I couldn't help but be terribly guilty if my son went to the local village primary and onto the (admittedly good) secondary schools given the opportunities my parents provided for me.

I have wanted to comment on your blinkered opinion of state education previously but so many posters before me have done so passionately and eloquently, and with such compelling personal stories, that I stayed quiet. But you have dismissed every positive story out of hand, and reading the above remark I thought I would offer my perspective.

I was privately educated, at a wonderful primary school, which I loved, and at probably the best private girls' school in the country (on average a third of every year goes on to Oxbridge, if that is how you like to measure success). I had a very good education and I am grateful to my parents for making it possible for me.

I have two young daughters, the elder of which goes to our local state primary. It's a good school and she is thriving. We don't have the money to send her to a private school but I wouldn't even if we did as I believe that the state offers a good education at primary level.

My parents have generously offered to pay for my children to attend private secondary schools, if we decide to go down that route. It's an extraordinary offer and there are many excellent private schools in our area. But I am by no means convinced that it's the obvious choice - in fact I am more inclined to save the money to help them buy their first property (my parents would be happy for the money to be used this way). I work with many local state schools, both primary and secondary, through my current job and I see bright, enthusiastic kids and dedicated teachers offering their students a very good education. Not all state schools are good, no - but neither are all private schools. Your determination to ignore all possibilities in the state sector, particularly in your current financial state, is short-sighted to the point of blindness.

There is so much more to a child's education than what they learn at school - you know this. My daughter's current school offers very little by way of musical education, which I regret. I work in music, as you do, and have been involved in music throughout my life both professionally and as an amateur musician. So my children will have music lessons outside of school, I will take them to concerts and will encourage them to enjoy and participate in music as I do. No school, state or private, will offer the perfect rounded education to every child and as parents we can - and should - do so much to give our children additional opportunities to learn and develop.

Each of us can only offer one person's perspective on education, based on our own experience, and I don't expect my reply to have any effect on your entrenched views. But I find your narrow-minded refusal to consider anything other than private school for your child extraordinary - and frankly such narrowmindedness says very little for your own education, if it didn't teach you to consider alternatives outside your own frame of reference.

pickle_me

Oh, and as for the point about feeling guilty for not giving your son the same opportunities your parents gave you - this is something I wondered about before I had children. I knew - because I don't earn a high salary, and my husband is a teacher - that I would never be able to afford to send my children to private school, as my parents did. Now that I have a daughter at school, seeing how much she is enjoying learning and how well the school looks after her, that worry has not crossed my mind once.

Incidentally my husband was state educated, in not particularly good schools, and went on to get a very high 2:1 (shades off a first) before becoming a teacher. He has taught in state and private schools and has no preference for one over the other - his experience has shown him that paying for an education is no guarantee of quality or superiority.

heartbreak_star

There's an earlier post from me about what my school was like, Alex

Suffice to say it was pretty rough but the teachers would educate those who were willing to learn. In my year group, six girls were pregnant during their GCSEs and 2 students were dead of drug overdoses before they were 18...but over 100 of us went on to college or university and then into good jobs.

You get bad eggs in every school - it's just in my experience the private-school parents can afford to cover up their offspring's mistakes (the only 2 I know about are a girl who was pregnant at 14 and her father paid for her abortion, and a drug addict who was "homeschooled" for a bit - in reality he was in rehab).

HBS x

Mara_uk7

Folks, Youre wasting your breath, ALEX has decided no school is good enough for his son unless he has to pay vast amounts of money for it, and no-one on a forum will sway him away from this. It doesnt matter if it bankrupts him trying to keep up with the Cambridges, as long as his son gets a PROPER education. Fact of the matter is , he has no idea if his son is academically inclined or not, the boy is 3 or 4. It doesnt matter that his WIFE doesnt approve of his decision, because Alex is a[STRIKE] spoilt [/STRIKE] determined man, who expects his son to have all the advantages that he enjoyed (?)

Respect his decision folks, and move on ...... Its all about clearing debts and staying solvent after all.

Keep Ebaying Alex

Ali-OK

Education is changing rapidly at the moment. Children have to be in some sort of education until 18 now - whether that be straight A levels or whether a secondary/upper school has linked directly into college for veterinary, computing and science courses - children will soon start to study these at 14 for careers, alongside the replacement GCSEs.

There are lots of opportunities in state education that didn't used to be there - if Little K is gifted and talented, then he should be picked by the school Head Teacher to do Children's University. DS did 3 years (summers) of that and had an amazing time with some top people from history to science, electronics to maths, he also started school a year early at 3 because he was deemed academically bright - I hasten to add his nursery pushed this, as I hold the view that there's a balance to be had between fun childhood and having to grow up too fast with too much emphasis on academia.

Alongside him at nursery were children whose parents were private school teachers (we have some very good private schools here) - their stance at the time was state is good until 11, then for academic focus private is good. However, they and I all opted for the same state secondary in the end, as it offered a more rounded education, including 72 electives - 3 each school year that they choose - such as rowing, business & finance, film making, debating, etc and a longer school day to accommodate it, as well as vertical learning. Not forgetting a very wide range of trips too. It also regularly attracts pupils from the local private schools due to it's smaller class sizes (20) and curriculum.

There's alot to be said for children growing up amongst people from all walks of life, as they'll be amongst them as an adult and in their working life.

Research is the answer - how many have you looked around so far? DS has not been to one catchment school, so I'm sort of half way house - wanted very good schools (both Ofsted Outstanding at the time) and was prepared to hunt them down!

I also had the offer of my parents paying for private, but didn't want to feel beholden to them or put DS under pressure to achieve because that's what his grandparents would have expected in return for the money. Nor did I want to fund (nor was I able to) the extra hidden costs (friends children who are at private going through this) - the child thinks nothing of 'needing £200 to go shopping, cinema and restaurant' on a Saturday with some classmates. :eek:

If you're adamant, you're adamant and we won't change that - all I'm saying is look deeper and wider. More and more state schools are taking on a more private school model and curriculum through Academy and Free School set ups as they can spend money how they feel best, but I suspect you still won't be pleasantly surprised!

The first few years were about the same cost as full time private nursery here, but Year 7 and above was looking at £15k a year and upwards and that was back in 2005. That's when it gets really steep and I can confirm teenagers are very expensive without school fees!

theoretica

pebbles88 wrote: »

Children's plays, Christmas or otherwise are not ever meant to be high calibre, or any calibre! It's about the having fun, & their family being so proud of seeing them

Yes, and no. Some are an 'oh help every school has one of those' while putting their time elsewhere. Some are for as much fun as possible for the effort put in. Others are partly advertising, including to current parents - quite possibly the sort Alex expected.

she believes that she turned out OK and so should he.

Do you really disagree?

Angry_Bear

So, you've heard variations of this before from others but I can't help putting in my 2p worth as well. Hopefully a range of experiences will at least encourage you to consider other scenarios.

I went to a state school - my mother considered putting me into a private school (I was a member of MENSA for a while, and almost certainly would have got a scholarship). Eventually she decided not to for a number of reasons - all of which I think are good reasons. So here are the reasons I'm glad I went to state school over private:

• I got to do extra-curricular activities. Does this sound an odd one? Not really - at my state school all activities were partailly subsisdised and many completely free. At a private school we would have had to pay and there's no way we could have afforded the variety of activities I tried.
• In the hope it will appeal to your particular sensibilities, I'll point out that I learned an instrument (for free) that I still play in a group several times a week. At secondary school I joined a local council musical group and played in Sydney Opera House. I wouldn't have got this opportunity from a private school.
• Socialisation - I lived next to the kids I went to school with and developed friendhsips that last to this day. There were a couple of kids who lived near me who went to private school - they didn't do much socialising in the summer and didn't seem to have the same "mucking about" opportunities we had.
• As for education itself - I don't know if private would have been better or not, but I've got a PhD in an engineering subject from a Russell Group uni (and a good job) so I'm pretty happy.

hohum

AlexLK wrote: »

VJsmum: I am sorry you have taken my comments that way, I simply didn't like what I saw for various reasons, some of which I imagine would have concerned many parents; it was nothing short of organised chaos and the less said about the standard of singing the better - it clearly had not been rehearsed well, if at all in parts.

I'm sorry Alex to pile in here, I've just been reading the last few pages of the thread and this comment made me :rotfl:

It reminds me of my other half. He's an actor who's done work in schools and he often made me laugh by complaining about the standard of their performances:

They're all rubbish!, he would say, they don't face the front and they forget their lines. And they get really excited, put their hands up to answer a question and then realise they didn't know the answer! AMATEURS!

:rotfl:

Well yes love, I would reply, they are all amateurs. They are also 5 years old and frankly getting them to face the front and remember to speak loudly is a small miracle.

He did say these things mostly to make me laugh but there was a grain of truth in that it pained him to sit through the less talented performances. But that's not the purpose of school plays and performances, at least not to me. It's about personal development and new experiences for the people taking part. You could be selective about who gets to take part in the choir but really, it's a village school. I'm another state schooled person who took part in rather ambitious school concerts (we had a great music department) but at primary school level my expectations are more proportionate.

You could of course send your son there, volunteer and really whip that choir into shape think of the school concert glory!

AlexLK

I've had a very difficult past couple of days, the details of which I would rather not go into but on the positive side I have at least managed to pay back some of the money owed.

Thank you all for your comments. I have to say I find the negative ones rather harsh - I only want the best for my son and do not see what is wrong with that.

pebbles88 wrote: »

Children's plays, Christmas or otherwise are not ever meant to be high calibre, or any calibre! It's about the having fun, & their family being so proud of seeing them (even if they mess up or their singing is atrocious, young children can't always remember their lines as they get so excited) that they feel their hearts could burst with joy.

Even if any of the parents seemed not your kind of people, that doesn't mean the child will be the same.


How would you have felt if little k was in such a play, & made a mistake? Or didn't sing in time with the others? Regardless of what school he was at?

I have to say I find performances of a very low level difficult to see and listen to.

As for if my son was the one out of time / singing at the wrong pitch, in all honesty I'd be somewhat embarrassed for him. However, he would have been very well rehearsed by myself beforehand. My parents never accepted anything but perfection from me and whilst I'm not that harsh I do think certain standards have to be met.

pickle_me wrote: »

I have wanted to comment on your blinkered opinion of state education previously but so many posters before me have done so passionately and eloquently, and with such compelling personal stories, that I stayed quiet. But you have dismissed every positive story out of hand, and reading the above remark I thought I would offer my perspective.

I was privately educated, at a wonderful primary school, which I loved, and at probably the best private girls' school in the country (on average a third of every year goes on to Oxbridge, if that is how you like to measure success). I had a very good education and I am grateful to my parents for making it possible for me.

I have two young daughters, the elder of which goes to our local state primary. It's a good school and she is thriving. We don't have the money to send her to a private school but I wouldn't even if we did as I believe that the state offers a good education at primary level.

My parents have generously offered to pay for my children to attend private secondary schools, if we decide to go down that route. It's an extraordinary offer and there are many excellent private schools in our area. But I am by no means convinced that it's the obvious choice - in fact I am more inclined to save the money to help them buy their first property (my parents would be happy for the money to be used this way). I work with many local state schools, both primary and secondary, through my current job and I see bright, enthusiastic kids and dedicated teachers offering their students a very good education. Not all state schools are good, no - but neither are all private schools. Your determination to ignore all possibilities in the state sector, particularly in your current financial state, is short-sighted to the point of blindness.

There is so much more to a child's education than what they learn at school - you know this. My daughter's current school offers very little by way of musical education, which I regret. I work in music, as you do, and have been involved in music throughout my life both professionally and as an amateur musician. So my children will have music lessons outside of school, I will take them to concerts and will encourage them to enjoy and participate in music as I do. No school, state or private, will offer the perfect rounded education to every child and as parents we can - and should - do so much to give our children additional opportunities to learn and develop.

Each of us can only offer one person's perspective on education, based on our own experience, and I don't expect my reply to have any effect on your entrenched views. But I find your narrow-minded refusal to consider anything other than private school for your child extraordinary - and frankly such narrowmindedness says very little for your own education, if it didn't teach you to consider alternatives outside your own frame of reference.

pickle_me wrote: »

Oh, and as for the point about feeling guilty for not giving your son the same opportunities your parents gave you - this is something I wondered about before I had children. I knew - because I don't earn a high salary, and my husband is a teacher - that I would never be able to afford to send my children to private school, as my parents did. Now that I have a daughter at school, seeing how much she is enjoying learning and how well the school looks after her, that worry has not crossed my mind once.

Incidentally my husband was state educated, in not particularly good schools, and went on to get a very high 2:1 (shades off a first) before becoming a teacher. He has taught in state and private schools and has no preference for one over the other - his experience has shown him that paying for an education is no guarantee of quality or superiority.

pickle me: Thank you for your perspective and I wish I had a better response than this. I also wish I was perhaps able to take a step away from my situation and look at things objectively, unfortunately I am not in such a position.