Mr and Mrs K's New Journey to a Debt Free Life.

AlexLK

heartbreak_star wrote: »

There's an earlier post from me about what my school was like, Alex

Suffice to say it was pretty rough but the teachers would educate those who were willing to learn. In my year group, six girls were pregnant during their GCSEs and 2 students were dead of drug overdoses before they were 18...but over 100 of us went on to college or university and then into good jobs.

You get bad eggs in every school - it's just in my experience the private-school parents can afford to cover up their offspring's mistakes (the only 2 I know about are a girl who was pregnant at 14 and her father paid for her abortion, and a drug addict who was "homeschooled" for a bit - in reality he was in rehab).

HBS x

Thank you and yes, I understand the fact you do get "bad eggs" in each and every school. I can think of a couple I went to school with too.

I suppose in some ways I don't want my son to grow up, I can quite honestly say I am dreading him attending school full time - it's selfish. In planning for him to go to the same schools as I went too seems "safe".

Mara_uk7 wrote: »

Folks, Youre wasting your breath, ALEX has decided no school is good enough for his son unless he has to pay vast amounts of money for it, and no-one on a forum will sway him away from this. It doesnt matter if it bankrupts him trying to keep up with the Cambridges, as long as his son gets a PROPER education. Fact of the matter is , he has no idea if his son is academically inclined or not, the boy is 3 or 4. It doesnt matter that his WIFE doesnt approve of his decision, because Alex is a[STRIKE] spoilt [/STRIKE] determined man, who expects his son to have all the advantages that he enjoyed (?)

Respect his decision folks, and move on ...... Its all about clearing debts and staying solvent after all.

Keep Ebaying Alex

Why should I not expect my son to have every advantage? My mistakes and problems should not bare ill on my son. As for him being academically inclined, yes he's 3 1/2 but is way ahead for his age with most developmental milestones.

On the positive side eBay is going well, thank you.

Ali-OK wrote: »

Education is changing rapidly at the moment. Children have to be in some sort of education until 18 now - whether that be straight A levels or whether a secondary/upper school has linked directly into college for veterinary, computing and science courses - children will soon start to study these at 14 for careers, alongside the replacement GCSEs.

There are lots of opportunities in state education that didn't used to be there - if Little K is gifted and talented, then he should be picked by the school Head Teacher to do Children's University. DS did 3 years (summers) of that and had an amazing time with some top people from history to science, electronics to maths, he also started school a year early at 3 because he was deemed academically bright - I hasten to add his nursery pushed this, as I hold the view that there's a balance to be had between fun childhood and having to grow up too fast with too much emphasis on academia.

Alongside him at nursery were children whose parents were private school teachers (we have some very good private schools here) - their stance at the time was state is good until 11, then for academic focus private is good. However, they and I all opted for the same state secondary in the end, as it offered a more rounded education, including 72 electives - 3 each school year that they choose - such as rowing, business & finance, film making, debating, etc and a longer school day to accommodate it, as well as vertical learning. Not forgetting a very wide range of trips too. It also regularly attracts pupils from the local private schools due to it's smaller class sizes (20) and curriculum.

There's alot to be said for children growing up amongst people from all walks of life, as they'll be amongst them as an adult and in their working life.

Research is the answer - how many have you looked around so far? DS has not been to one catchment school, so I'm sort of half way house - wanted very good schools (both Ofsted Outstanding at the time) and was prepared to hunt them down!

I also had the offer of my parents paying for private, but didn't want to feel beholden to them or put DS under pressure to achieve because that's what his grandparents would have expected in return for the money. Nor did I want to fund (nor was I able to) the extra hidden costs (friends children who are at private going through this) - the child thinks nothing of 'needing £200 to go shopping, cinema and restaurant' on a Saturday with some classmates. :eek:

If you're adamant, you're adamant and we won't change that - all I'm saying is look deeper and wider. More and more state schools are taking on a more private school model and curriculum through Academy and Free School set ups as they can spend money how they feel best, but I suspect you still won't be pleasantly surprised!

The first few years were about the same cost as full time private nursery here, but Year 7 and above was looking at £15k a year and upwards and that was back in 2005. That's when it gets really steep and I can confirm teenagers are very expensive without school fees!

Hi Ali,

Thank you for the insight and sorry this response is somewhat short. It does sound as if you have an exceptional state school locally.

Ali-OK

We all want the best for our child(ren), but do it within our means - not somebody elses and it's also a joint journey of both parents supporting those decisions. You're not there on either of those.

You know you are already setting your son up to fail by expecting perfection? It's the extreme opposite of depression and never being good enough and you know only too well the outcome as an adult. Do not put that on your son. If there's anything I learnt from having perfectionist parents, it was to put my foot down and parent my child my way, not my parents way, they soon got used to it and butted out. You should be proud of whatever he tries hard at, irrespective of the level of achievement at the end of it.

You must have a drawing that Little K thinks is wonderful and you possibly not, but irrespective, proudly display his work on a kitchen cupboard? We've all been there.

AlexLK

theoretica wrote: »

Yes, and no. Some are an 'oh help every school has one of those' while putting their time elsewhere. Some are for as much fun as possible for the effort put in. Others are partly advertising, including to current parents - quite possibly the sort Alex expected.

Do you really disagree?

I expected something that had been at least well rehearsed.

I do not disagree that she turned out alright. However, I do disagree with her old school's and her parents' attitude to further study - they seemed to believe it's for the pursuit of a career rather than to immerse oneself within a chosen subject. The school was, from what I can gather, very focused on future jobs for pupils than academic merit.

Angry_Bear wrote: »

So, you've heard variations of this before from others but I can't help putting in my 2p worth as well. Hopefully a range of experiences will at least encourage you to consider other scenarios.

I went to a state school - my mother considered putting me into a private school (I was a member of MENSA for a while, and almost certainly would have got a scholarship). Eventually she decided not to for a number of reasons - all of which I think are good reasons. So here are the reasons I'm glad I went to state school over private:

• I got to do extra-curricular activities. Does this sound an odd one? Not really - at my state school all activities were partailly subsisdised and many completely free. At a private school we would have had to pay and there's no way we could have afforded the variety of activities I tried.
• In the hope it will appeal to your particular sensibilities, I'll point out that I learned an instrument (for free) that I still play in a group several times a week. At secondary school I joined a local council musical group and played in Sydney Opera House. I wouldn't have got this opportunity from a private school.
• Socialisation - I lived next to the kids I went to school with and developed friendhsips that last to this day. There were a couple of kids who lived near me who went to private school - they didn't do much socialising in the summer and didn't seem to have the same "mucking about" opportunities we had.
• As for education itself - I don't know if private would have been better or not, but I've got a PhD in an engineering subject from a Russell Group uni (and a good job) so I'm pretty happy.

Thank you for the insight. It sounds like you too went to a good state school. Unfortunately, state schools seem to be nothing other than a postcode lottery. One I am unwilling to risk.

hohum wrote: »

I'm sorry Alex to pile in here, I've just been reading the last few pages of the thread and this comment made me :rotfl:

It reminds me of my other half. He's an actor who's done work in schools and he often made me laugh by complaining about the standard of their performances:

They're all rubbish!, he would say, they don't face the front and they forget their lines. And they get really excited, put their hands up to answer a question and then realise they didn't know the answer! AMATEURS!

:rotfl:

Well yes love, I would reply, they are all amateurs. They are also 5 years old and frankly getting them to face the front and remember to speak loudly is a small miracle.

He did say these things mostly to make me laugh but there was a grain of truth in that it pained him to sit through the less talented performances. But that's not the purpose of school plays and performances, at least not to me. It's about personal development and new experiences for the people taking part. You could be selective about who gets to take part in the choir but really, it's a village school. I'm another state schooled person who took part in rather ambitious school concerts (we had a great music department) but at primary school level my expectations are more proportionate.

You could of course send your son there, volunteer and really whip that choir into shape think of the school concert glory!

:rotfl: I'm glad somebody understands! Yes, I will not deny it does indeed pain me to sit through terrible renditions of familiar Christmas carols.

The school is so small, they would have struggled to be particularly selective (there's just under 40 children in attendance aged from 4 to 11).

MrsCautious

I find myself posting again Alex to say I feel bad for you having perfectionist parents and wanting your son to have certain standards as you put it, (nothing wrong with that last bit of course but your view sounds a little narrow around academic performance) my view is that emotional intelligence is something that can be very much under rated, I do hope in time you conquer your complicated feelings about private vs state education and come to embrace the fact that a loved, happy child can prosper in either -- nothing to do with a postcode lottery'.


Your posts sound like you are very down, I hope you can find some way forward, personally I'd encourage you to count your blessings a little, you have a son with two healthy parents, speaking as someone whose children no longer have that, I can tell you this is wealth indeed! Good luck in continuing to tackle your debt, be kind to yourself.

AlexLK

Ali-OK wrote: »

We all want the best for our child(ren), but do it within our means - not somebody elses and it's also a joint journey of both parents supporting those decisions. You're not there on either of those.

You know you are already setting your son up to fail by expecting perfection? It's the extreme opposite of depression and never being good enough and you know only too well the outcome as an adult. Do not put that on your son. If there's anything I learnt from having perfectionist parents, it was to put my foot down and parent my child my way, not my parents way, they soon got used to it and butted out. You should be proud of whatever he tries hard at, irrespective of the level of achievement at the end of it.

You must have a drawing that Little K thinks is wonderful and you possibly not, but irrespective, proudly display his work on a kitchen cupboard? We've all been there.

Ali: Thank you for your post.

No, unfortunately Mrs. K. and I are not on the same page.

I do not expect perfection but I do expect him to do his best and not to sit back and coast. As his father I am aware of his strengths and weaknesses - he is a musical child and therefore I would be disappointed if at the age of five he struggled to maintain a steady pulse whilst singing in an all ability school choir. However, there are a couple of things I know he struggles with and thus remains "behind" where he "should" be for his age. I always try to view these "weaknesses" sympathetically and do not berate as my parents would have. The difference is I am involved in his day to day life, my parents weren't.

heartbreak_star

In this day and age, sadly, education has to focus on future career prospects rather than subject immersion.

I would have been absolutely delighted to study a degree in choreography and stagecraft, but seeing as that would get me precisely nowhere unless I managed to break into a big theatre company, I studied biology instead as that had more prospects.

I still choreograph as a hobby, but I also have a job that works with what I studied.

It is patently obvious (and very sweet, I think!), that you don't want Little K to grow up. It shows how much you love him that you want to see him safe all the time...but better that he grows up around people from all walks of life. The real world isn't safe - and the faster he learns that, the better IMO

HBS x

AlexLK

MrsCautious wrote: »

I find myself posting again Alex to say I feel bad for you having perfectionist parents and wanting your son to have certain standards as you put it, (nothing wrong with that last bit of course but your view sounds a little narrow around academic performance) my view is that emotional intelligence is something that can be very much under rated, I do hope in time you conquer your complicated feelings about private vs state education and come to embrace the fact that a loved, happy child can prosper in either -- nothing to do with a postcode lottery'.

Your posts sound like you are very down, I hope you can find some way forward, personally I'd encourage you to count your blessings a little, you have a son with two healthy parents, speaking as someone whose children no longer have that, I can tell you this is wealth indeed! Good luck in continuing to tackle your debt, be kind to yourself.

Thank you for your post and no need to feel bad on my part at all. I can't say I'm exactly pleased with things at the moment but yes, I do have plenty of things to be thankful for. It's a shame that I'm such a waste of effort, unable to see those things for the majority of the time.

heartbreak_star wrote: »

In this day and age, sadly, education has to focus on future career prospects rather than subject immersion.

I would have been absolutely delighted to study a degree in choreography and stagecraft, but seeing as that would get me precisely nowhere unless I managed to break into a big theatre company, I studied biology instead as that had more prospects.

I still choreograph as a hobby, but I also have a job that works with what I studied.

It is patently obvious (and very sweet, I think!), that you don't want Little K to grow up. It shows how much you love him that you want to see him safe all the time...but better that he grows up around people from all walks of life. The real world isn't safe - and the faster he learns that, the better IMO

HBS x

I do understand this, can't say I like it and I do not believe things should be as they are but I can certainly see your point.

No the "real world" most certainly is not safe or happy. Makes me wonder why I stay at times like these.

smile24

Hi Alex only read the last few pages but just wanted to add life is really difficult at times, some horrible things happen. There are also some lovely positive things which are obviously what we try and strive for.

My aim is for my daughter to be equipped to handle the difficulties life throws at her to the best of her abilities so ultimately she is happy and well rounded. Therefore i don't want to shelter her from the realities of life i want to give her the skills to be able to overcome difficulties she may face.

I do feel the small all girls school i went to (which produced excellent results) sheltered me from the real world. I learned a lot of life lessons in a bigger sixth form at the local school and then at university.

theoretica

AlexLK wrote: »

Thank you all for your comments. I have to say I find the negative ones rather harsh - I only want the best for my son and do not see what is wrong with that.

I, and probably a lot of us, feel that wanting good things for your son is great. Where I divide from you is with the notion of 'the best'. There isn't a 'best' - there are lots of differents, some with more good points than others and some of which would suit one person better than others. Well, maybe there is a best if you consider every school in the world, but I don't think you are and it would be influenced by things like who joined the school after little K so pretty impossible to determine. We are arguing against your resistance to the idea that free education can be good. (Did you have to pay university fees?) And particularly that it is better for someone to have a private schooling at the expense of one parent's discontent. I also would question the assumption that your old schools will be the right, safe, choice - how have they changed since you were there?

theoretica

AlexLK wrote: »

I do not disagree that she turned out alright. However, I do disagree with her old school's and her parents' attitude to further study - they seemed to believe it's for the pursuit of a career rather than to immerse oneself within a chosen subject. The school was, from what I can gather, very focused on future jobs for pupils than academic merit.

May I remind you that you do not need to pass your son over to his school lock stock and barrel? If you feel his school is emphasising something too much it is a parent's privilege to provide the balance, in whichever direction you feel he needs, wants or might enjoy. Any school will fall short of perfection for every single kid, though in different ways for each one, and you will get to tweak his upbringing as you feel it needs - whether this is learning car maintenance, how to carve a chicken or to love maths.