MSE News: Were you mis-sold an iPhone 5? Your options...

NFH

Earthworm wrote: »

If this is true (I am not into law and don't study it) then the airtime agreement is still valid surely not? Would this then mean that Voda/O2 would then have to pursue Apple for individual claims or that the purchaser themself would have to contact Apple? I cant see how it would give you rights to terminate your monthly plan early.

If it went to court, then Vodafone/O2 would most probably be liable to the customer for the cost of replacing the iPhone 5 with a genuinely 4G-compatible iPhone. The service contract would continue. The law is more concerned about putting the consumer in the position they would have been in if the breach had not occurred in the first place, rather than giving the consumer an opportunity to escape a bona fide contract.

As you suggest, Vodafone/O2 would suffer a loss and they would consequently be entitled to make a claim in turn against their supplier, Apple, under the Sale of Goods Act 1979. Business-to-business contracts of sale may opt out of the Sale of Goods Act, in which case Vodafone/O2 would have to bear the loss.

Kite2010

The problem is that someone could claim they asked the salesperson "will this work on O2/Vodafone 4G network" and the salesperson said yes.

It being 10+ months ago what evidence will the network have in defence, I'm sure salespeople won't remember every sale they make.

NFH

Kite2010 wrote: »

The problem is that someone could claim they asked the salesperson "will this work on O2/Vodafone 4G network" and the salesperson said yes.

It being 10+ months ago what evidence will the network have in defence, I'm sure salespeople won't remember every sale they make.

It doesn't matter, because Apple's public statement can be used instead. Apple's words suggested that the limited 4G support would be an issue only in other countries, not within the UK.

KTF

Kite2010 wrote: »

The problem is that someone could claim they asked the salesperson "will this work on O2/Vodafone 4G network" and the salesperson said yes.

It being 10+ months ago what evidence will the network have in defence, I'm sure salespeople won't remember every sale they make.

Irrelevant, unless its in writing (which it wont be).

ZhugeEX

Just posting this here- An example i came up with as to why the iPhone 5 doesn't work on O2/Voda.

It's purely down to the hardware. In the UK each network uses a certain frequency to broadcast a 4G signal. The iPhone 5 hardware only supports one frequency (1800Mhz). And there are three frequencies being used in the UK (800Mhz, 1800Mhz, 2600Mhz)

Think of 4G in the UK like a motorway.
3 lanes, 3 frequencies
Lane 1= 800Mhz
Lane 2= 1800Mhz
Lane 3= 2600Mhz

Vodafone uses lane 1 and 3 for their 4G network, O2 use Lane 1, Three use Lane 1 and 2 and EE use all 3 lanes.

The iPhone 5 only works on lane 2 frequency (1800Mhz) and so won't work on Vodafone or O2 because they don't have access to this frequency. The iPhone 5 doesn't support the other two frequencies/lanes due to the fact it came out last year before the UK had 4G.

All new 4G phones in the UK should work on all networks and frequencies.

NFH

KTF wrote: »

Irrelevant, unless its in writing (which it wont be).

In law, it doesn't have to be in writing; it could be given orally. The question is whether the consumer can prove it, not the method of communication.

redux

KTF wrote: »

They did put a disclaimer in that you should contact the service provider to check if it will be supported (not rocket science really).

It was well publicised at launch that the iphone 5 would not work on all 4G networks in the UK so I really don't see why people think they have been 'miss-sold' the phone.

Seemingly its always someone elses fault these days...

Did Apple start doing that before or after they were fined millions on advertising standards grounds in Australia where they promoted the iPad as 4g while such use was simply not possible?

To be fair to their conduct here, I think the answer is after, and they'd learned their lesson.

But even so the marketing buildup to a new product launch can be global nowadays, with reviews from all around the world, so although we think people should not have been taken in by and relied only on the advance hype, maybe it's not impossible some were,, though I am rather sceptical.

marks7389

redux wrote: »

Did Apple start doing that before or after they were fined millions on advertising standards grounds in Australia where they promoted the iPad as 4g while such use was simply not possible?

To be fair to their conduct here, I think the answer is after, and they'd learned their lesson.

But even so the marketing buildup to a new product launch can be global nowadays, with reviews from all around the world, so although we think people should not have been taken in by and relied only on the advance hype, maybe it's not impossible some were,, though I am rather sceptical.

I think the Australia case was blatant misrepresentation since we're talking about selling into a market where the product to all intents and purposes was not 4G capable at all.

This issue here is slightly different. The iPhone 5 is 4G (specifically LTE) capable in the UK, just not on all networks. For most purchasers of sim free handsets the answer is simply to buy a compatible service from EE or eventually Three. Most will not be materially disadvantaged, unless tied into a 12 month sim only deal that they would have had to be able to upgrade, buy out or let it run its course anyway.

For contract purchases it will be interesting to see if anyone successfully argues they have entered into a contract based on false representation from either Apple or the network that they would be able to use the handset on that operator's 4G network. Even if it were compatible, there was no guarantee the operator would have offered the option to switch/upgrade mid contract... that is aside from any trade in offer on the table that would have involved changing the phone or unless a sales agent has verbally said otherwise for which proof is likely to be the sticking point.

Caveat emptor... It never ceases to amaze me that people complain they are tied into two year contracts with no coverage at home/work simply because they assumed that they would with no research.

Wickedkitten

NFH wrote: »

The disclaimer was specifically regarding networks outside the UK; it is not relevant to this problem within the UK.


If they reasonably understood from Apple's statements that the iPhone 5 would work throughout the forthcoming 4G networks in the UK, then those statements are binding upon Vodafone and O2 as I explained above. If a manufacturer says something about its product, this is binding upon all suppliers.

If you read further down the order page it says

* To identify your iPhone 5 model number, see http://support.apple.com/kb/HT3939. For details on LTE support, contact your carrier and see https://www.apple.com/iphone/LTE.

And when you go to the LTE page, they still only have EE listed

matttye

MSE_Martin wrote: »

A few unnecessarily snide comments above.

We've had a number of people who believe they were misled on this asking what their rights are. And so we wrote a news story on it to explain their rights and their options if they want to upgrade. That's what we're here to do.

The piece isnt a huge call for people to take up claims - in fact it is rather clear that most people don't have rights here (do note the title of the piece has a question mark - its not a clarion call).

Yet while in the main this is just the march of technology. Some people do feel upset and feel misled - that isn't implausible across the mass of phone shops in the UK.

Remember goods must be 'as described' and that includes information given by shop sales staff.

Martin

Good point, I wasn't thinking of all the individual shops and sales staff - was thinking of the organ grinder - Apple.

It wouldn't surprise me in the least if the sales staff at CPW, phones4u etc. misled customers.