Channel 4 9pm

liam8282

~Chameleon~ wrote: »

No, you don't, that's just inviting injury! The bar is kept close to the body at all times using a clean and press motion. There is no extension of the arm involved. Perhaps you need to learn how to lift a bar correctly! And when you get into the heavier weights you use a rack anyway so no lifting from the floor is involved.

As you were talking about a 30kg weight on a bar, I presumed you were talking about a free weight.

Using a rack you could be in position ready to go, but you would still use the rotator cuff in a shoulder press anyway, even using a rack.

~Chameleon~ wrote: »

Well, you are talking to someone who lives with a PT and is in regular contact with a sports physio so I think I know what I'm talking about. I don't feel the need to resort to Wiki to seek information.

Look, you keep asking your friend, but the facts disagree.

http://www.livestrong.com/article/401925-what-3-muscles-are-used-on-the-shoulder-press/

Position

Many muscles do little more than maintain the alignment of your structure, but are critical. The internal and external rotators are both extremely active, making the shoulder press better for balanced rotator cuff development than the bench press. Your abdominals and lower back contract to maintain your torso in an erect position, and your forearms contract to allow you to hang on to the bar. Rarely are only three muscles involved in any exercise, but the shoulder press involves most of the muscles of your upper body, making it an excellent exercise for strength and power.

~Chameleon~

liam8282 wrote: »

As you were talking about a 30kg weight on a bar, I presumed you were talking about a free weight.

Using a rack you could be in position ready to go, but you would still use the rotator cuff in a shoulder press anyway, even using a rack.


Yes, I was talking about using free weights! Whether you clean and press from a deadlift or hook it off a rack is neither here nor there.


Look, you keep asking your friend, but the facts disagree.

So you're calling a fully qualified and extremely experienced sports physiotherapist a liar now?


How many more times?! When you are lifting a bar to do a shoulder press, at no point are you holding that bar in a forward flexion, i.e. with your arms fully extended in front of you! If you are, then you're doing it wrong! And doing overhead press doesn't cause the same impingement on the rotator cuff muscles as other rotations and movements. Doing overhead presses actually helps to strengthen and stabilise the joint!

This is my last word on the subject. I think I should know my own shoulders and the range of motion I can perform without causing pain or injury!

liam8282

~Chameleon~ wrote: »

So you're calling a fully qualified and extremely experienced sports physiotherapist a liar now?

The same goes for every factual link I have posted on shoulder presses, do you still protest that the rotator cuff set of muscles are not used when performing that exercise?

~Chameleon~ wrote: »

How many more times?! When you are lifting a bar to do a shoulder press, at no point are you holding that bar in a forward flexion, i.e. with your arms fully extended in front of you! If you are, then you're doing it wrong!

I have never said that you hold a bar with your arms fully extended in front of you when performing a shoulder press.

Although your video did show a woman, arms fully extended, holding onto a bar.

Apart from when using a rack, you have to reach at some point to lift the weight up from the starting position. No matter where the weight is, floor, rack, set up, you will have to use the rotator cuff at some point to move your arms and shoulders to pick the weight up, get into position and then perform the excercise.

That is all about technique when performing the excercise etc. which is again pointless debating here. I go to the gym on a regular basis, so I am not completely inexperienced in knowing how to lift a weight etc.

Let's get it right here, you arguing about lifting a 30kg weight, I was talking about lifting a potato from a desk.

~Chameleon~ wrote: »

And doing overhead press doesn't cause the same impingement on the rotator cuff muscles as other rotations and movements. Doing overhead presses actually helps to strengthen and stabilise the joint!

Doing overhead presses will not help to strengthen and stabilise a shoulder joint, if the rotator cuff is already damaged, which is what you are saying. It will just probably do more damage to the rotator cuff.

You will struggle with any shoulder excercise if you have a damaged rotator cuff.

~Chameleon~ wrote: »

This is my last word on the subject. I think I should know my own shoulders and the range of motion I can perform without causing pain or injury!

Thank god for that. :T

liam8282

~Chameleon~ wrote: »

Doing overhead presses actually helps to strengthen and stabilise the joint!

Seems BUPA agree with me too:

http://www.bupa.co.uk/individuals/health-information/directory/r/rotator-cuff-injury
Treatment of rotator cuff injuries

Treatment of a rotator cuff injury depends on the type of injury you have and how severe it is.
Self-help

The following measures may help.

• Rest your shoulder initially. Limit activities that involve lifting your arm over your head and don’t perform any movements that cause you pain. Start to do gentle movements as soon as possible to prevent any stiffness in your shoulder.

margaretclare

GlasweJen wrote: »

There's a council estate in an area of south Lanarkshire that replaced all of the tenants gardens with AstroTurf because the tenants couldn't/wouldn't maintain them. The gardens are now all regulation length plan grass surrounded by fencing with no gate to give the appearance of a well kept garden while preventing tenants defacing the grass. Within the fences you see dirty nappies, broken TVs, abandoned furniture etc because the tenants just open their windows and throw out anything they don't want and can't be bothered to take down to the bins.

This is something that mystifies me. We live in a little residential street and there isn't a scrap of litter about. Go down the road for a while and you see people chucking litter out of cars, McD's paper bags, drinks cartons, plastic bottles, you name it. All along the main roads there is litter, and in the town centre where there are numerous bins, snack papers and litter just dropped, often within a couple of steps of the bin. Again, it's an attitude of mind. We like to go out for a picnic but we always bring wrappers etc back with us. We wouldn't dream of just chucking them out of the car.

~Chameleon~

liam8282 wrote: »

I have never said that you hold a bar with your arms fully extended in front of you when performing a shoulder press.

Although your video did show a woman, arms fully extended, holding onto a bar.

Ermmm holding onto a bar (i.e. RESTING the arms/shoulders) whilst psyching yourself up for a lift IS NOT THE SAME AS LIFTING WEIGHT WITH ARMS EXTENDED FORWARD!!

You really don't get it do you! You can spout as many articles as you like, they prove nothing. And besides, I'm not talking about injured muscles, I'm talking about impingement which requires stabilisation and strengthening to PREVENT INJURY!!

Tell me, how can you do that if, as you say, you're unable to do any shoulder exercises with weakened rotator cuff? Oh but I'm only a woman, what would I know! I guess wiki knows more than a qualified physiotherapist too!

As I said before, I know the range of motion I can do without causing pain or injury. I can happily do shoulder presses all day long. But some days I can't even fill a kettle of water without it hurting! Yes, two completely different movements!

liam8282

~Chameleon~ wrote: »

This is my last word on the subject.

I didn't think it would be.....

~Chameleon~ wrote: »

Ermmm holding onto a bar (i.e. RESTING the arms/shoulders) whilst psyching yourself up for a lift IS NOT THE SAME AS LIFTING WEIGHT WITH ARMS EXTENDED FORWARD!!

Arms were fully extended holding onto the bar, I would say that would require the same amount of force, effort and muscle groups to lift a potato from a desk. Which is what we were discussing here.

~Chameleon~ wrote: »

You really don't get it do you! You can spout as many articles as you like, they prove nothing. And besides, I'm not talking about injured muscles, I'm talking about impingement which requires stabilisation and strengthening to PREVENT INJURY!!

You seem to have changed what you were talking about to suit your argument.

You were actually talking about what excercises you could do with an injured rotator cuff inititally.

~Chameleon~ wrote: »

Tell me, how can you do that if, as you say, you're unable to do any shoulder exercises with weakened rotator cuff? Oh but I'm only a woman, what would I know! I guess wiki knows more than a qualified physiotherapist too!

I didn't actually say that did I?

You are just reading what you want and trying to make it fit your current argument.

~Chameleon~ wrote: »

As I said before, I know the range of motion I can do without causing pain or injury. I can happily do shoulder presses all day long. But some days I can't even fill a kettle of water without it hurting! Yes, two completely different movements!

My head is now hurting. I wonder if I can get signed off sick too? :rotfl:

liam8282

~Chameleon~ wrote: »

Oh but I'm only a woman, what would I know!

Next it will be the sexism act that you role out, not that I even knew (or was bothered either way) you were a woman until you just brought it up.

~Chameleon~

liam8282 wrote: »

My head is now hurting. I wonder if I can get signed off sick too? :rotfl:

Are you trying to imply that I'm signed off sick due to a shoulder injury now? :rotfl:

liam8282

~Chameleon~ wrote: »

Are you trying to imply that I'm signed off sick due to a shoulder injury now? :rotfl:

I give up! :beer: