Channel 4 9pm

liam8282

ab.da54 wrote: »

Was there a clip showing the inside of the woman's car so that we can be sure whether or not there were actually any adaptions?

There is a clip of her getting into the car and driving the car, there are no adaptions to the car.

ab.da54 wrote: »

Before the assessment, a clip showed her struggling to put her coat on, and her face signalled she was in pain.

Next, we see the door closing, then we see her walking to the assessment place, walking slowly and stopping. The bag was in the same hand as the walking stick she was using.

The bag of potatoes she was asked to lift, weighed 12lbs. Despite her bag looking large, it did not look full and most likely didn't weigh 12lbs.

She did not say she could not pick up a single potato, she said it caused pain in her shoulder region when she reached for it.

We did not see her pick up her grandson and put him on her knee. First clip shows him leaning into her for a hug and she puts her left arm round him. Next clip shows him sat on her lap.

There is no scene which shows how he moved from a standing to a seated position, however, he was not a very young child and past the age of needing to be picked up to sit on his Grandma's knee.

This is pointless discussing, you have your opinion, I have mine. Neither of us can actually say if Karen was in pain or not.

If somebody says they are in pain, are they actually in pain? Or are they telling you the answers to pass the assessment?

I would say she was drilled in the art of passing medical assessments. It was just pathetic that she couldn't pick up a potato, had no problem with scissors until a tailoring job was mentioned, then pain suddenly developed in her thumb.

nannytone_2

im not taking it personally.
i know you are talking about the people that you deel are like karen.
but what you 'feel' she is like may be totally wrong.
how do YOU decide who you think are genuinely disabled?
i visit the gym 3 times a week. i coulld beat most people on an endurance test on the exercise bike .... judging by the criterias you have used to judge karen, then i am not disabled.
i didnt like karens attitude, but for obvious reasons, didnt actually 'see' the programme, but listened to it.
maybe she is ok in short bursts, i dont know. but without having the whole picture, then no one can really judge.
she has been assessed as unfit for work and that is the only 'fact' we have.

thanks for the links but that isnt the help i need.
i need a job vacancy with an employer willing to buy the necessary software, that is an easy commute from where i live.
oh and someone that will realise how capable i am without the need for experience

nannytone_2

there is a lack of couses available to jobseekers in genersal, but disabled jobseekers specifically.
apart from the basic english/maths/IT, they offer some vocational courses ( if you git the criteria) such as bricklaying and other practical tasks.
i was encouraged to do a 'personal empowerment' course ( i did) as if all disabled people lack the confidence to speak up for themselves and ned encouragement to make a stand ( i admit that some do, but we are the same as able bodied people.... all different)
i then did a mentoring course. it interested me, but i soon realised that my strengths would be best used in advocacy rather than mentoring.
can i get a course?

dont be silly. i'm disabled and they ( the job centre) dont think i should feel the need to work anyway!
'you should appeal as you should be in the support group'
i dont want to be in the support group! i want to work.
it drives me mad twiddling my fingers at home.
i was volunteering for a local disability group. mainly helping with benefit entitlement etc.
but the funding was cut and the nearest centre is now 20 miles away. not a vast distance i admit, but far enough to make it an unrealistic option when it would take me 2 hours travelling and 3 buses each way ( a journey that ive never done)
so i suppose i'll just sit and stagnate until they pull their finger out and offer some real help instead of just blaming us for being disabled and no longer able to do the jobs we once did

ab.da54

liam8282 wrote: »

There is a clip of her getting into the car and driving the car, there are no adaptions to the car.



This is pointless discussing, you have your opinion, I have mine. Neither of us can actually say if Karen was in pain or not.

If somebody says they are in pain, are they actually in pain? Or are they telling you the answers to pass the assessment?

I would say she was drilled in the art of passing medical assessments. It was just pathetic that she couldn't pick up a potato, had no problem with scissors until a tailoring job was mentioned, then pain suddenly developed in her thumb.

You are wrong when you state that she couldn't pick up a potato. That didn't happen. The Dr asked her to reach for the potato, which she did, she then said she felt pain in her shoulder area when reaching for it.

You are right that we have different opinions. I think, ultimately, the opinion that matters is the one that decides whether or not she meets the criteria to claim disability and / or out of work benefits and they have determined that she does.

Brassedoff

~Chameleon~ wrote: »

That is certainly true. Without specific experience one truly cannot judge another unless you know them extremely well. And you cannot always judge another with the same illness/condition/disease as no two people are afflicted or suffer or react in the same way.

A little compassion, understanding and tolerance goes a long way

Yes, you can say that, but do they expect me to pay for their disability that may be questionable from the stance of another sufferer with the same condition? Their HCP who knows them, or an ATOS HCP who does not believe they fit the criteria? Where does it stop?

I know the Government ARE picking on the wrong group. The country has a debt that is five times GDP. When, not if, but when the house of cards falls, there will be no welfare state, no NHS, not many things. Everyone will have a simple choice, work, starve, rely on relatives! But that's not for another year or two. Maybe I should start focussing on just myself rather than geo-political events to hit this nation. I expect once government gilts get to 5% and another Greece we go!

I suppose all those lazy bar stewards campaigning about fracking will change their mind or let away when they have a choice of gas or dole. But I go way off at a tangent.

nannytone wrote: »

it is the generalising that is the problem.
you are treating all disabled people as if the issues one has, applies to all disabled people.
each disabled person has their own issues and difficulties but they arent common to us all.
even people with the same condition can have different issues.

so to pick out individuals and explain them away as if they are the exception is ridiculous.
we are a group of individualsan that have individual problems.
a one size fits all approach will never work

youve asked me why i dont work in a call centre.
i pointed out the transport issues, including the fact that the last bus runs at 5. !according to you... an excuse.
i pointed out that crowded noisy places confuse me ( bus station) as i cant see... !you said... i went to alton towers so its an excuse ( i went with my daughter and her family, so not alone)
i need special software and in a nisy environment of a call centre would struggle to concentrate .... an excuse?
call centres tend to be large spaces, filled with obstacles , people and peoples belonging so an obvious hazard to a blind person.... an excuse?

not excuses... just a few examples of what i struggle with.
not all blind people struggle with the same things.
but as i said ... we may all be disabled but we are NOT all the same

A quick look has given me three work at home call/customer service agents. £7.20- 7.45 ph, 40 hrs pw, + commission.!

Try gumtree, or next reason by many please?

~Chameleon~ wrote: »

And who exactly are the "Karens" of this world? You're basing your judgement on the view of a snapshot of one person's life via an extremely edited television programme. The programme showed you exactly what they wanted you to see. These programmes are nothing short of government propaganda.

OMG, that is almost as daft as the fracking protester who was interviewed today when listening to an independent expert from Leicester Uni when he said (this is just the right wing fascist media).

There's always a [STRIKE]excuse[/STRIKE] reason

liam8282

So......

What did everybody think of last nights instalment?........

liam8282

My thoughts:

Young woman two kids, felt sorry for how people would be treated 1949, but do think people are actively encouraged to be single parents today. There is so much help and support given to single parents, it actually encourages couples to split (or say they have split) to get more benefits.

African man, again felt sorry for him. But in his own country he was a prisoner or an activist, he had nothing. So why when he came to the uk did he feel he was an entitled to housing & money?

Non working couple, disgusting. Neither worked and their house was in suh a state. Complaining that nobody showed them how to look after their house, well I bet nobody showed them how to have kids but that didn't stop them.

~Chameleon~

liam8282 wrote: »

My thoughts:

Young woman two kids, felt sorry for how people would be treated 1949, but do think people are actively encouraged to be single parents today. There is so much help and support given to single parents, it actually encourages couples to split (or say they have split) to get more benefits.

I think this young lady perhaps learnt more than the others from this. She seemed to appreciate the help available to single parents today compared to 1949. She even admitted she wouldn't have had children so young without the welfare state to support her. Childcare is obviously an issue but I'm confident she will make every effort to find employment in the near future.

African man, again felt sorry for him. But in his own country he was a prisoner or an activist, he had nothing. So why when he came to the uk did he feel he was an entitled to housing & money?

He was living in a 5-bed house in Zimbabwe, so didn't come from "nothing". He was also willing to work even when he discovered he was being paid less than fellow workers as an immigrant.

Non working couple, disgusting. Neither worked and their house was in suh a state. Complaining that nobody showed them how to look after their house, well I bet nobody showed them how to have kids but that didn't stop them.

Equally disgusted at the state of the family's house. No excuse whatsoever as both were unemployed. Would be nice to see a follow-up to find out whether they've kept it clean and tidy now they've been shown how. I suspect they'd become overwhelmed by the sheer state of the mess, albeit one they created for themselves, so this should have given them the impetus to continue. Perhaps it will also encourage the guy to find employment in a gardening role as he seemed to thoroughly enjoy that aspect of it.

margaretclare

There was a desperate shortage of housing in 1949 because of all the bomb damage, also returning servicemen wanting to marry and settle down. My first husband and I were married in 1957 and I clearly remember when we went to apply for council housing in his home town. As he'd been away in the forces he'd lost his 'home town' status (can't remember what they called it then) and because we were newly-weds and hadn't yet had children we were laughed at. Yes, laughed at. We were living with his parents in a 2-bed bungalow and it was made clear to us that we'd have to be living in awful conditions, with at least a couple of kids, before we'd have any chance of being housed, and no certainty even then. A lot of newly-weds were living with parents.

Also, being granted a council house was deemed a privilege and not a 'right'. The new council estates were meant to be like 'garden villages' with residents who were proud of them and took care of their gardens. Originally you (well, the man that is) had to be in a job and therefore able to pay the rent. No housing benefit!

A far cry from the sh*t holes many have become.

liam8282

"He was living in a 5-bed house in Zimbabwe, so didn't come from "nothing". He was also willing to work even when he discovered he was being paid less than fellow workers as an immigrant."

Must admit, I must have missed that bit. I still don't understand how people from other countries can come to the UK and have that feeling of entitlement.

I do applaud his work ethic though, that too of the Polish worker he was with.

The Polish guy came here in 2002? worked ever since and has saved enough to buy a house.
I have always said that there is plenty of work out there, for people that actually want to work. It may not be a job you want to do, but there is work.