Channel 4 9pm

tomtom256

JoolzS wrote: »

To anyone who has posted to this thread who thinks that sick and/or disabled people should just get a job - while at work tomorrow take a really good look around. See if it would be at all reasonable for a disabled person to work there. I'll pick an obvious example - a person in a wheelchair. Could they reasonably access the building you work in (including transport - where's the nearest bus-stop and what are the timetables for the wheelchair accessible buses that stop there, or the train, or even the nearest carpark - are there easily accessible ramps across the roads from the carpark to your place of work?) Could they access the toilets? Could they easily move from their desk to another, just to ask a question; or use a photocopier? (Even as I typed that I realised that every copier I have ever used has been set up for someone who is standing - the lid couldn't be opened properly by a sitting person). For just one seven or eight hour period, try to consider how difficult it might be for someone who is not completely able-bodied to do the job you do.

Then, on Tuesday, borrow a pair of crutches and try doing your job, from door to door - not just in your place of work. You obviously can't use your car to get to work - but apparently public transport is so readily available you should be able to get there ok. (I may have to rethink this idea, because just using crutches isn't that difficult - the pain caused by the injuries/disabilities necessitating the use of crutches is the problem - but I can't see a way to mimic that - other than breaking a bone or two.)

Then, on Wednesday, think about how someone with mental health issues might cope with your a**hole boss/co-worker/customers.

On Thursday, ask your boss why your company doesn't employ more disabled people - no- demand that they employ more. Tell them that if they don't employ at least one (more) disabled person you will quit. I know that 99.9999% of you wouldn't consider doing such a thing because you want to hang on to your job. You know how bad it is out there and you don't want to be unemployed (even though you believe that every unemployed person is living the life of Riley).

Then, the next time you get sick enough to feel you have to take time off from work, think about how you'd feel if you had to drag yourself into work even though the pain or diarrhoea or vomiting or migraine, etc, was basically how you felt every single day.

And then consider how you might stop thinking that every sick and/or disabled person could just get a job if they applied themselves!

I am sick to death of seeing holier than thous attempting to tell sick and disabled people who are living on benefits that if they just tried harder they could work for a living.

(Before anyone asks - I have mental health issues that keep me from working. I was claiming IB, then ESA but have now timed out of ESA because the stress of attending the ATOS reviews was too much for me. I am in the very fortunate position of having a husband who earns enough to pay our bills. However, when his back gives out and I can see the absolute agony in his eyes it terrifies me that we might one day be reliant on the welfare state - and people who think that he should just "get a job". I am also incredibly jealous of anyone who has never had to see a loved one in agonizing pain.)

Well I do most of this daily, automatic car for getting about. Crutches from car to office and around building. Sometimes use the tram if need to get into the city (turn invisible on the tram).

Reasonable expectations regarding work and affects of painkillers including raising the sickness triggers have been taken by my employer.

There are also several disabled people where I work, as not everyone is defeatist.

I look at what I can do as opposed to what I can't! I could pass the ESA test quite easily by using the descriptors like the minority do in order to claim it, like Karen in the programme who could do some work. It was clear her ailments are not as bad as she made out, just look how she moves about!

Obviously I don't ask about employing others or quitting as that would be stupid!

GlasweJen

JoolzS wrote: »

To anyone who has posted to this thread who thinks that sick and/or disabled people should just get a job - while at work tomorrow take a really good look around. See if it would be at all reasonable for a disabled person to work there. I'll pick an obvious example - a person in a wheelchair. Could they reasonably access the building you work in (including transport - where's the nearest bus-stop and what are the timetables for the wheelchair accessible buses that stop there, or the train, or even the nearest carpark - are there easily accessible ramps across the roads from the carpark to your place of work?) yes, the front door is level access as is the back door which backs onto a car park with 2 disabled spaces. The train station is about 300 meters away with one road crossing which is dropped kerb and has a green man to cross. The bus stop is 50m round the corner and has a regular bus service and some coaches - most are accessible. I don't use public transport because the government provide me with a taxi. Could they access the toilets? yes, raised seat, grab rails and sensibly positioned sinkCould they easily move from their desk to another, just to ask a question; or use a photocopier? (Even as I typed that I realised that every copier I have ever used has been set up for someone who is standing - the lid couldn't be opened properly by a sitting person). we don't have a photo copier but the desks can be wheeled up to, doors are wide, tool bench is low and has a gap for wheelchair now I've joined and staff room is easy to access For just one seven or eight hour period, try to consider how difficult it might be for someone who is not completely able-bodied to do the job you do.

Then, on Tuesday, borrow a pair of crutches and try doing your job, from door to door - not just in your place of work. [COLOR="red"I can't do that because I can't stand up yet.[/COLOR] You obviously can't use your car to get to work - but apparently public transport is so readily available you should be able to get there ok. (I may have to rethink this idea, because just using crutches isn't that difficult - the pain caused by the injuries/disabilities necessitating the use of crutches is the problem - but I can't see a way to mimic that - other than breaking a bone or two.)

Then, on Wednesday, think about how someone with mental health issues might cope with your a**hole boss/co-worker/customers.
my boss is lovely and I don't take Crap from customers (and believe me some of them can be horrible about being seen by someone in a wheelchair)
On Thursday, ask your boss why your company doesn't employ more disabled people - no- demand that they employ more. Tell them that if they don't employ at least one (more) disabled person you will quit. I know that 99.9999% of you wouldn't consider doing such a thing because you want to hang on to your job. You know how bad it is out there and you don't want to be unemployed (even though you believe that every unemployed person is living the life of Riley). I think my boss would be confused if I did that given I'm in a wheelchair and the office person had anxiety problems and arthritis

Then, the next time you get sick enough to feel you have to take time off from work, think about how you'd feel if you had to drag yourself into work even though the pain or diarrhoea or vomiting or migraine, etc, was basically how you felt every single day. I have a heart condition and faint without warning - does that count? I'm constantly dizzy and it affects my balance sometimes too?
And then consider how you might stop thinking that every sick and/or disabled person could just get a job if they applied themselves!

I am sick to death of seeing holier than thous attempting to tell sick and disabled people who are living on benefits that if they just tried harder they could work for a living.

I think I'm quite entitled to think that there are people who rip the utter mince out of the system given that I make the support group on 1 ground and score over 60 points on an ESA questionnaire and still work full time for someone else (continence and mobility before you ask)

(Before anyone asks - I have mental health issues that keep me from working. I was claiming IB, then ESA but have now timed out of ESA because the stress of attending the ATOS reviews was too much for me. I am in the very fortunate position of having a husband who earns enough to pay our bills. However, when his back gives out and I can see the absolute agony in his eyes it terrifies me that we might one day be reliant on the welfare state - and people who think that he should just "get a job". I am also incredibly jealous of anyone who has never had to see a loved one in agonizing pain.)

Filler text, see comments in red

liam8282

~Chameleon~ wrote: »

So how about rural communities that have limited bus service and those buses aren't wheelchair friendly? My own village has two buses a week. The neighbouring village at least has an hourly service but only between 7am and 6pm Mon-Sat, no Sunday service. The nearest town is over an hour away by bus. If you work shifts you're stuffed!

There is always going to be a specific scenario that somebody could mention, as I said when this came up before, I am talking in general, not about specific individual scenarios.

The problems with public transport, in your specific scenario, affect everybody in your village, not only the disabled. How does everybody else manage? Or does nobody in that village commute using public transport?

tomtom256 wrote: »

Well I do most of this daily, automatic car for getting about. Crutches from car to office and around building. Sometimes use the tram if need to get into the city (turn invisible on the tram).

Reasonable expectations regarding work and affects of painkillers including raising the sickness triggers have been taken by my employer.

There are also several disabled people where I work, as not everyone is defeatist.

I look at what I can do as opposed to what I can't! I could pass the ESA test quite easily by using the descriptors like the minority do in order to claim it, like Karen in the programme who could do some work. It was clear her ailments are not as bad as she made out, just look how she moves about!

Obviously I don't ask about employing others or quitting as that would be stupid!

Spot on.

People find a way to do the things they want to do, but find excuses for the things they don't want to do.

~Chameleon~

liam8282 wrote: »

There is always going to be a specific scenario that somebody could mention, as I said when this came up before, I am talking in general, not about specific individual scenarios.

The problems with public transport, in your specific scenario, affect everybody in your village, not only the disabled. How does everybody else manage? Or does nobody in that village commute using public transport?

Not many to be honest. I mean, who on earth can rely on a twice weekly bus service to get to work? It's used mainly by pensioners to get to the PO in the next village for their pensions and a bit of shopping.

liam8282

~Chameleon~ wrote: »

Not many to be honest. I mean, who on earth can rely on a twice weekly bus service to get to work? It's used mainly by pensioners to get to the PO in the next village for their pensions and a bit of shopping.

Exactly, so bringing up that very specific scenario is not very relevant then?

I mean, the public transport is poor for everybody, disabled or not.

But everybody still manages to get to work, get out and about, disabled or not?

You can see why people like myself can see this as making an excuse not to do something, rather than finding a way to do it.

rogerblack

liam8282 wrote: »

Exactly, so bringing up that very specific scenario is not very relevant then?

I mean, the public transport is poor for everybody, disabled or not.

But everybody still manages to get to work, get out and about, disabled or not?

You can see why people like myself can see this as making an excuse not to do something, rather than finding a way to do it.

No, everyone disabled doesn't manage to get out and about, especially those without the fortune of having friends and family who can take them.

I'm disabled.
Specifically - I have chronic fatigue syndrome.

I've not been out of the house in about 7 months.

There are extremely limited transport opportunities for me locally.
Firstly - yes - there is an hourly bus to the nearby town.
However - once I have gotten to this, gotten on it, changed once to get to my destination - I'm basically done for the day - and can't get back home safely - several times I've gotten on the wrong bus in a very confused state.

Taxi - sure - £20 there and back. This is clearly limited.

Car - I have a car - I can't drive it as I've failed the test several times, because on most days, even with resting before, I get tired about halfway through and make mistakes.

(I'd be driving only 6 miles, which is significantly shorter than the test, and only on good days)

Is my condition usual - certainly not - some disabled people have a rich and varied life, and find transport no problem.

'Everyone manages to get out and about' - well - no.

For many nondisabled people there are simply more options.
Move - which may involve for the disabled person finding a whole new support network, and perhaps adaptions to their house.
Get a bicycle, or walk. (this isn't really an option for many)
Buy a cheap car, in the knowledge that if it breaks you can without much hassle walk, or get to somewhere safe.
...

oldboy64

JoolzS wrote: »

To anyone who has posted to this thread who thinks that sick and/or disabled people should just get a job - while at work tomorrow take a really good look around. See if it would be at all reasonable for a disabled person to work there. I'll pick an obvious example - a person in a wheelchair. Could they reasonably access the building you work in (including transport - where's the nearest bus-stop and what are the timetables for the wheelchair accessible buses that stop there, or the train, or even the nearest carpark - are there easily accessible ramps across the roads from the carpark to your place of work?) Could they access the toilets? Could they easily move from their desk to another, just to ask a question; or use a photocopier? (Even as I typed that I realised that every copier I have ever used has been set up for someone who is standing - the lid couldn't be opened properly by a sitting person). For just one seven or eight hour period, try to consider how difficult it might be for someone who is not completely able-bodied to do the job you do.

Then, on Tuesday, borrow a pair of crutches and try doing your job, from door to door - not just in your place of work. You obviously can't use your car to get to work - but apparently public transport is so readily available you should be able to get there ok. (I may have to rethink this idea, because just using crutches isn't that difficult - the pain caused by the injuries/disabilities necessitating the use of crutches is the problem - but I can't see a way to mimic that - other than breaking a bone or two.)

Then, on Wednesday, think about how someone with mental health issues might cope with your a**hole boss/co-worker/customers.

On Thursday, ask your boss why your company doesn't employ more disabled people - no- demand that they employ more. Tell them that if they don't employ at least one (more) disabled person you will quit. I know that 99.9999% of you wouldn't consider doing such a thing because you want to hang on to your job. You know how bad it is out there and you don't want to be unemployed (even though you believe that every unemployed person is living the life of Riley).

Then, the next time you get sick enough to feel you have to take time off from work, think about how you'd feel if you had to drag yourself into work even though the pain or diarrhoea or vomiting or migraine, etc, was basically how you felt every single day.

And then consider how you might stop thinking that every sick and/or disabled person could just get a job if they applied themselves!

I am sick to death of seeing holier than thous attempting to tell sick and disabled people who are living on benefits that if they just tried harder they could work for a living.

(Before anyone asks - I have mental health issues that keep me from working. I was claiming IB, then ESA but have now timed out of ESA because the stress of attending the ATOS reviews was too much for me. I am in the very fortunate position of having a husband who earns enough to pay our bills. However, when his back gives out and I can see the absolute agony in his eyes it terrifies me that we might one day be reliant on the welfare state - and people who think that he should just "get a job". I am also incredibly jealous of anyone who has never had to see a loved one in agonizing pain.)

and........??

I have had a serious mental health problem since the mid 90's, yet I worked right up until retirement at 60. The medication controlled it along with the psychotherapy. In addition to that I have difficulties with walking.

My job entailed the investigation of people, interviews as well as out of office visits to premises and homes.

It is all a question of mind over matter and good medical support.

In a wheelchair now - could I go back to work - of course I could - I actually still work from home!

liam8282

rogerblack wrote: »

No, everyone disabled doesn't manage to get out and about, especially those without the fortune of having friends and family who can take them.

I'm disabled.
Specifically - I have chronic fatigue syndrome.

I've not been out of the house in about 7 months.

There are extremely limited transport opportunities for me locally.
Firstly - yes - there is an hourly bus to the nearby town.
However - once I have gotten to this, gotten on it, changed once to get to my destination - I'm basically done for the day - and can't get back home safely - several times I've gotten on the wrong bus in a very confused state.

Taxi - sure - £20 there and back. This is clearly limited.

Car - I have a car - I can't drive it as I've failed the test several times, because on most days, even with resting before, I get tired about halfway through and make mistakes.

(I'd be driving only 6 miles, which is significantly shorter than the test, and only on good days)

Is my condition usual - certainly not - some disabled people have a rich and varied life, and find transport no problem.

'Everyone manages to get out and about' - well - no.

For many nondisabled people there are simply more options.
Move - which may involve for the disabled person finding a whole new support network, and perhaps adaptions to their house.
Get a bicycle, or walk. (this isn't really an option for many)
Buy a cheap car, in the knowledge that if it breaks you can without much hassle walk, or get to somewhere safe.
...

Again, if you read my comments, I am generalising, where as you are talking about individual specific scenarios, of which I have never questioned or disagree with.

liam8282

Nobody has said that ALL disabled people can work, it appears only to be the people that have come on for an argument and that is the only retort they have, even though nobody is questioning it, except themselves.

This was a discussion about the programme on Channel 4, where you had a disabled person and person signed off sick. Both could clearly work, only one wanted to.

The person who can work and wants to work, will find a way.

The person who can work, but doesn't want to, will find an excuse.

That was the whole point of half of the comments on this thread.

The other half are just from people protesting that individual disabled people will never be able to work, which I think everybody already understands and has never been in question.

KxMx

Fakers, moaners and bad attitudes aside, where some see excuses others (usually with close experience of disability) see realistic and rational thinking.