Channel 4 9pm

SingleSue

liam8282 wrote: »

There is a clip of her getting into the car and driving the car, there are no adaptions to the car.



This is pointless discussing, you have your opinion, I have mine. Neither of us can actually say if Karen was in pain or not.

If somebody says they are in pain, are they actually in pain? Or are they telling you the answers to pass the assessment?

I would say she was drilled in the art of passing medical assessments. It was just pathetic that she couldn't pick up a potato, had no problem with scissors until a tailoring job was mentioned, then pain suddenly developed in her thumb.

My car has no adaptations, I get into it and drive. What most people do not see is the pain it causes or the tiredness at the end of the drive.

I can hold scissors for a short amount of time, just like I can hold a needle for a very short amount of time but there is no way I would be able to do it as a job (not that it would be my cup of tea anyway).

I am not 'trained' in passing medical assessments, I don't even claim any disability benefits, despite having to use a wheelchair when out and about and one of the reasons why I don't, is because there will always be someone who will see me do something for a short time on a good day and believe I am making it all up.

Another reason is damn stupid pride :rotfl:

liam8282

SingleSue wrote: »

My car has no adaptations, I get into it and drive. What most people do not see is the pain it causes or the tiredness at the end of the drive.

I can hold scissors for a short amount of time, just like I can hold a needle for a very short amount of time but there is no way I would be able to do it as a job (not that it would be my cup of tea anyway).

I am not 'trained' in passing medical assessments, I don't even claim any disability benefits, despite having to use a wheelchair when out and about and one of the reasons why I don't, is because there will always be someone who will see me do something for a short time on a good day and believe I am making it all up.

Another reason is damn stupid pride :rotfl:

Again, you are bringing this back to a discussion about an individual person's circumstances.

Telling me what you can't do, but not mentioning skills you do have or anything you could do.

Honestly, I think this has been discussed to death now.

"(not that it would be my cup of tea anyway)."

I am sure there are many people that go to jobs that they don't particularly enjoy, but needs must.

If only everybody was in such a position to be able to make the choice whether or not a job was their cup of tea or not.

SingleSue

Ah, but I was not replying on the what I can do area but only highlighting that a car can be driven without adaptations when a person has a disability.

As to what I can do? A hell of a lot! I don't see my disability as a bar to working, I can work with a few minor adjustments made (and I mean minor, such as a step under a desk for my short legs, something I needed before my body decided it was going to play silly beggers, or being able to get up and move around every now and then), as far as I am concerned, if I can sit and type on my laptop and make phone calls, then I can do the same in a work situation (bear in mind, that is me personally, other people may not be able to cope with the same disability as we are all different)

I too have had jobs in sectors I am not much interested in, saying something is not my cup of tea is not the same as saying I would not do it. If it pays, I will do it because as you say, needs must.

Edit - the only restriction on my working conditions would be a job with lifting, walking or a lot of physical exertion involved. Anything else is fine and dandy...

liam8282

SingleSue wrote: »

Ah, but I was not replying on the what I can do area but only highlighting that a car can be driven without adaptations when a person has a disability.

I know that cars can be driven without adaption.

The point I was making here is, that it was made out that Karen had pain in her arm when reaching for a potato, or pain in her thumb when performing basic tasks such as using scissors.

But surely driving an unadapted car would be much more physically demanding?

If this was the case, would she not have the same pains when driving?

Would the car not have to be altered to remove any phyisically demanding tasks, such as changing gears? (Which I would equate to the equivalent of reaching for and picking up a potato from a desk)

If her legs were so bad, would she not have hand controls, or if her hands are so bad that she could not use scissors, how did she manage at all?

Or was it following the theme, that because she wanted to drive the car, she could drive the car.

Maybe she could find work as a taxi driver?

:rotfl:

925dancer

I finally caught up on both these shows last night. As per usual, particularly with last nights programme, they've picked the benefit scrounging stereotypes for the show. How anyone can watch these and think it's a fair representation of anything is beyond me, let alone use it for tenuous arguments about how bad the welfare state is. Even the people in the roles of benefits officers have been quite uncomfortable at times.

As for all those people harping on about there being plenty of jobs if you look hard enough. There are roughly 4 people to every vacancy at the moment with as many as 35 people competing for one minimum wage role. So the numbers simply don't stack up, not everyone can find work, not by a long shot.

I was unemployed last year, a former professional on a reasonable wage. I applied for everything, yes everything I could, form minimum wage up, sending out hundreds of applications. I looked hard. I did eventually find a minimum wage job but only after deciding to return to university to retrain.

I am bored of benefits bashing on the basis of misinformation and Daily Mail stereotypes. As the show has stated, our biggest welfare spend is pensioners, shall we just take their money off them, would save us loads!

margaretclare

925dancer wrote: »

I am bored of benefits bashing on the basis of misinformation and Daily Mail stereotypes. As the show has stated, our biggest welfare spend is pensioners, shall we just take their money off them, would save us loads!

Oh sure. Then - guess what? We'd have to go back to work, to join the numerous people you quote - 4 to every vacancy - how many would that make us? With our wisdom, skills and experience there is sure to be some job we can do. I could go back to doing office work through an agency, which is what I did up to age 67. I'd have carried on if anyone would have employed me! DH's last job was working in a call-centre and he could certainly do something involving computers. We both have the keyboard skills and haven't yet lost all our marbles.

Incidentally, about driving. I imagine that anyone who sees DH driving will assume that he's quite normal. He's an excellent driver, but can only drive an automatic car because his left leg will not bend far enough. Similarly, he can't get into the passenger seat because his knee will not bend to allow him to get his leg round the A-frame. This applies even in the biggest of cars.

And then you'd get the outcry "We worked for half a century, paid tax, they promised us". Just like we hear about winter fuel, bus passes, TV licences, which are incidentals that we (DH and I) don't really need and would be happy to forgo. It might be political suicide though, for any government that tried it, because of the 'grey vote'.

nannytone_2

Brassedoff wrote: »

Yes, you can say that, but do they expect me to pay for their disability that may be questionable from the stance of another sufferer with the same condition? Their HCP who knows them, or an ATOS HCP who does not believe they fit the criteria? Where does it stop?

I know the Government ARE picking on the wrong group. The country has a debt that is five times GDP. When, not if, but when the house of cards falls, there will be no welfare state, no NHS, not many things. Everyone will have a simple choice, work, starve, rely on relatives! But that's not for another year or two. Maybe I should start focussing on just myself rather than geo-political events to hit this nation. I expect once government gilts get to 5% and another Greece we go!

I suppose all those lazy bar stewards campaigning about fracking will change their mind or let away when they have a choice of gas or dole. But I go way off at a tangent.



A quick look has given me three work at home call/customer service agents. £7.20- 7.45 ph, 40 hrs pw, + commission.!

Try gumtree, or next reason by many please?




OMG, that is almost as daft as the fracking protester who was interviewed today when listening to an independent expert from Leicester Uni when he said (this is just the right wing fascist media).

There's always a [STRIKE]excuse[/STRIKE] reason

i suppose working from home could be an option, but not one i am really interested in.
as a blind person, i am already isolated from the rest of socitey. spending all day every day alone isnt something that would appeal to many people.

yes i receive benefit and am willing to work but i also need a degre of quality in my life.
(i meet the descriptors for support group, so could at any time, transfer from the WRAG. i dont do this because i want to work and support myself as i did for 30 years before losing my sight)

dori2o

I've been looking for home working jobs for the past 12 months and can say for definate that there isn't that many opportunities out there.

The majority of all home working adverts are scams, and of those which are real jobs, most of them require you to attend the office for certain things (training, performance reviews etc etc). Not such an easy thing to do when you live hundreds of miles away from said office.

The only true form of homeworking is self employment, but not everyone is cut out for it. I certainly wouldn't enjoy the stress/hassle of being self employed in order to bring in my main income. As an additional income it's a different matter, you are not reliant on it and can spend as much or as little time with the project.

~Chameleon~

liam8282 wrote: »

Would the car not have to be altered to remove any phyisically demanding tasks, such as changing gears? (Which I would equate to the equivalent of reaching for and picking up a potato from a desk)

Different set of muscles used for both tasks so neither actually equates to the other.

For example, I have a rotator cuff problem in my shoulders which makes it uncomfortable/painful to reach out forwards to lift something, depending how much I've aggravated it. Yet, I can quite happily lift a 30kg weight bar above my head and perform a set of shoulder presses totally pain free. If you saw me do that would you then believe I can find it painful to reach out and pick up a potato from the desk?

Not in any way defending the woman, just pointing out the flaws in your justification. A little knowledge of anatomy and physiology goes a long way when judging what someone may or may not find difficult

liam8282

~Chameleon~ wrote: »

Different set of muscles used for both tasks so neither actually equates to the other.

For example, I have a rotator cuff problem in my shoulders which makes it uncomfortable/painful to reach out forwards to lift something, depending how much I've aggravated it. Yet, I can quite happily lift a 30kg weight bar above my head and perform a set of shoulder presses totally pain free. If you saw me do that would you then believe I can find it painful to reach out and pick up a potato from the desk?

I haven't done a degree in sports science, so I am not that clued on on the anotomy of the human body and individual muscle groups. Although I do enjoy going to the gym on a regular basis, so do know the excercises you are talking about.

Just to get the 30kg weight bar into position to perform a shoulder press you would have to use the rotator cuff set of muscles.

But I would expect even with a shoulder injury, somebody could lift a single potato from a desk.

Google would suggest that if you had a rotator cuff problem, shoulder presses would be one of the worst excercises you could perform, it also one of the worst for causing rotator cuff problems, so yes, I would question you being able to perform a set of 30kg shoulder press excercises with a rotator cuff problem.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rotator_cuff

Rotator cuff injuries are commonly associated with motions that require repeated overhead motions or forceful pulling motions. Such injuries are frequently sustained by athletes whose actions include making repetitive throws, athletes such as cheerleaders, baseball pitchers, softball pitchers, American football players (especially quarterbacks), weightlifters, especially powerlifters due to extreme weights used in the bench press, rugby players, volleyball players (due to their swinging motions)I][URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Citation_needed"]citation needed[/URL][/I, water polo players, rodeo team ropers, shot put throwers (due to using poor technique)I][URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Citation_needed"]citation needed[/URL][/I, swimmers, boxers, kayakers, western martial artists, fast bowlers in cricket, tennis players (due to their service motion)I][URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Citation_needed"]citation needed[/URL][/I and tenpin bowlers due to the repetitive swinging motion of the arm with the weight of a bowling ball.
This type of injury also commonly affects orchestra conductors, choral conductors, and drummers (due, again, to swinging motions).


Notice how potato lifting was not mentioned?



http://voices.yahoo.com/10-worst-weight-routines-rotator-cuff-bad-5145981.html

~Chameleon~ wrote: »

Not in any way defending the woman, just pointing out the flaws in your justification. A little knowledge of anatomy and physiology goes a long way when judging what someone may or may not find difficult

I would say that reaching and controlling a gear stick is pretty much equivalent to reaching and picking up a potato. Even though you are reaching and lifting the potato, it wasn't exactly a lift upwards of any weight, it was more just placing her hand on the potato to move it toward herself, like reaching and moving the gear lever.

Even without a degree in anatomy or physiology, I would say that pretty much all of the same muscle groups will be used in the two tasks.