Parking Charge - Excel Parking - Stockport Peele Centre

Umkomaas

So you can see ITGuy90 - even the people you have not started well with are still on your side. Work with us and, together, we'll see this off for you, but the operative word is....... TOGETHER!

ITGuy90

This is probably a bit jumbled but this is my first draft.. after reading those other examples I've tried to include some of their points which are relevant to the Peel Centre... let me know what you think?



I am writing to you regarding parking charge XXXXXXXX issued to vehicle xxxx xxx on 20/07/2013 at 19:31 for allegedly being "Parked without displaying a valid ticket / permit" by means of an automatic number plate recognition camera. The use of such a camera has no stipulation as to how it will be used, what data is recorded and proof that this information is kept secure and free of tamper.
The Registered Keeper of the above vehicle denies any liability for the unenforceable charge detailed in the above Parking Charge Notice.
The charge does not represent any form of loss and as such it is punitive and therefore a PENALTY. The amount specified is disproportionate to any possible loss on your part either through loss of business or the POPLA code (which is not included).

Furthermore, a ticket WAS actually purchased for the car park and therefore renders your parking charge notice null and void.

Confirm acceptance of this challenge and cancel the charge, or provide a POPLA verification code where a vigorous and robust challenge will be mounted.

No further correspondence will be entered into with you on this matter. If nothing further from you is received within 35 days of the date of this letter it will be assumed the challenge is accepted and the charge cancelled.

Failure to send a POPLA code would be a breach of the BPA Code of Practice. Be advised that failure to comply with a code of conduct to which you have committed is a prohibited practice under the Consumer Protection from Unfair Trading Regulations 2008, and I would not hesitate to report such a breach to the BPA, DVLA and Trading Standards.

Umkomaas

ITGuy90 wrote: »

The parking charge notice also does not explicitly state "the creditor is xyz" anywhere on it. Does this also strengthen my case?

Excellent - this is one of the hurdles, and the PPC seem to have tripped on it. However, it's not a slam-dunk 'failure' but will add to their problems in pursuing this.

Keep going, and well done

Guys_Dad

Hold fire on that for now and please answer the questions we have asked.

PPCs and POPLA don't like 100% technical appeals and we need a bit that makes it look less like a template.

ITGuy90

Guys_Dad wrote: »

Ok, so you are researching. Good start.

There are 2 timescales that operate.

If you get a windscreen sticker, then they have to wait 28 days to give you some time to reply.

If, however, they get you with an ANPR Camera, then they must contact you within 14 days. Seems from what you have said, the latter was the case and they are in time.

(There are 2 sections in POFA 2012 paragraphs 8 and 9 with their sub paras.

The letter you got - does it say Notice to Keeper and does it specify your "crime" and also mention POPLA?

They most certainly should not be threatening ccjs.

Oh, does it contain the words "Fine" or "Penalty"?

Can you remember if there were signs at the entrance to the KFC area that spelt out all their t&c.

Lastly, you need to find out if it was a free park or a fixed time that was free.

Come back with all that info and we can help.

I'm going to have to get back to you on that, which will probably have to be tomorrow evening (first instance I'll get to go have a proper look after work). There's certainly nothing obvious on the way into KFC or on the windows about their T&Cs. I know there is a 15 minute free parking bit. But this is kind of flawed, how often do you manage to go into a food shop, queue, pay, wait for food and eat in 15 minutes.. that's ridiculous.

I rang KFC earlier today and they were not very helpful, I mentioned that I had bought a ticket but they merely said something about the 15 minute free parking. I had asked to speak to the manager about it but they were not in until tomorrow morning - I will call back and talk to them then.

Guys_Dad wrote: »

Hold fire on that for now and please answer the questions we have asked.

PPCs and POPLA don't like 100% technical appeals and we need a bit that makes it look less like a template.

OK.. I'll reduce it a bit and repost tomorrow evening.

Umkomaas

ITGuy90, you've done a great job so far, in sharp contrast to your start (sorry for the reminder!!).

But it's not a race, yet understand your probable instinct to get shot of this asap.

Within the prescribed timeframes do take your time to get everything clear in your mind and in line with advice and a 'win' will be all the sweeter and most of it will be your own work.

Can't emphasise enough that, despite the shaky start, we're with you all the way on this!

ITGuy90

I have pictures of the signs now.
The first one is in such an awkward place that a driver cannot possibly read it.





I noticed when I walked up to a machine on the far side of the car park, it read out something about entering your license number? I've never heard that before.


KFC sign. (Situated around the corner from the main entrance and not visible at the entrance).


You have to be a contortionist to read most of the signs.


Close up of above pic:



I have 14 photos in total, some are of the same sign from a different angle as I couldn't get all of it in.

ITGuy90

Guys_Dad

OK - Good job.

Now it seems clear to me that there are two regimes in operation here. The first is for regular parkers - and the signs apply to them. The second applies to the KFC area.

We have the same thing in Milton Keynes where Argos and Toys 4Us have a separate area within the main area that is free for 2 hours. The important thing is that there needs to be signage when you move from one area to another so that you know when you are switching regimes.

I take it you parked in the KFC regime area? So are you being charged for exceeding the 15 minutes, even if you held a Pay and Display ticket that covered you if you had parked outside the KFC area or are you being charged for not having a valid ticket AND exceeding your free 15 minutes?

And is there a clear delineation between the 2 areas. However, given that the signs at the entrance do give 15 minutes free parking, then maybe that is what KFC are trying to use.

Lastly, you make some reference to entering car reg numbers. Is this a requirement at the centre. There is absolutely nothing on the signs you have photographed that refer to any need to enter car regs.

Sorry to ask more questions, but tryinng to home in on the appeal points.

ITGuy90

Guys_Dad wrote: »

OK - Good job.

Now it seems clear to me that there are two regimes in operation here. The first is for regular parkers - and the signs apply to them. The second applies to the KFC area.

We have the same thing in Milton Keynes where Argos and Toys 4Us have a separate area within the main area that is free for 2 hours. The important thing is that there needs to be signage when you move from one area to another so that you know when you are switching regimes.

I take it you parked in the KFC regime area? So are you being charged for exceeding the 15 minutes, even if you held a Pay and Display ticket that covered you if you had parked outside the KFC area or are you being charged for not having a valid ticket AND exceeding your free 15 minutes?

And is there a clear delineation between the 2 areas. However, given that the signs at the entrance do give 15 minutes free parking, then maybe that is what KFC are trying to use.

Lastly, you make some reference to entering car reg numbers. Is this a requirement at the centre. There is absolutely nothing on the signs you have photographed that refer to any need to enter car regs.

Sorry to ask more questions, but tryinng to home in on the appeal points.

The thing is - the PC world area was originally free on Saturdays too. So I didn't even think I needed a ticket to be honest.
I parked in front of the store, not quite in the bays around the corner with the KFC signs there but not too far.
There's no clear barrier between the sections of the car park and there are in fact no Excel parking signs at all in front of KFC, the first one is at the entrance, the others are near the back (close to whatever store is right at the end near PC World/Curry's/Whatever it is now) and to the side (next to the road on the round about).

I take it you parked in the KFC regime area? So are you being charged for exceeding the 15 minutes, even if you held a Pay and Display ticket that covered you if you had parked outside the KFC area or are you being charged for not having a valid ticket AND exceeding your free 15 minutes?

Good point. I don't know. It isn't clear where one begins and another ends. I also need to point out the car park wasn't anywhere near full either, I don't see how I was hurting anyone.
There are also no signs of any kind on the entrance to KFC. None at all regarding parking either.

Lastly, you make some reference to entering car reg numbers. Is this a requirement at the centre. There is absolutely nothing on the signs you have photographed that refer to any need to enter car regs.

This was a voice recording that played when I got close to the ticket machine near the end store next to PC world (furthest from KFC). It said something along the lines of "please be sure to enter the accurate registration number when buying the ticket".