Parents who force their children into religion?

Mojisola

Person_one wrote: »

He sees the wealthy powerful men who are at the top of most (all?) religions raking it in, enjoying a life of privilege while exploiting millions of vulnerable people, being generally corrupt and using their religion for less than positive ends. He sees millions of people having their lives ruled, or even dying, because of myths and fairy tales and ideas that have absolutely no basis in fact.

He sees all this and it makes him angry, fair enough! It makes me angry too! I don't at all think he's filled with hatred for little old ladies who run church coffee mornings, I think he sees them as innocent victims and is desperate for people to see what religion really does to the world, the 'bigger picture' as it were. I get that, I really do.

This is where there is such a divergence between beliefs and actions. For example, if the men at the top of the Roman Catholic church really believed in Jesus and the bible, how could they go to work in all the splendour of the Vatican with paintings worth millions hanging on the wall? How hypocritical!

Seriously - do they ever ask themselves "What would Jesus do?" Turf them all out, sell the valuables and help the poor!

Most atheists have absolutely no problem with people believing whatever tosh they want, gods, angels, ghosts, fairies, alien abduction, conspiracy theories, its all the same to me. The problem is when individuals and organisations start expecting special rights and privileges for those beliefs, or start getting in a huff when people who don't share those belief don't follow their rules!

This is a big problem. X is a member of a certain religion. His beliefs are given protected status and can over-ride the beliefs of his neighbour Y.

Person_one wrote: »

You're absolutely right, for true believers the thought of your child in hell must be an absolute torment. Isn't it despicable that religious leaders perpetuate this hurtful, harmful idea in order to keep believers in fear and exercise control over them?

I have a friend from a very religious family, he's gay. Seeing the torture he's gone through of first accepting his own sexuality and realising it doesn't make him evil or dirty and that the god he was brought up to love doesn't hate him now, and then of facing the reactions of his parents and community and their reactions. Honestly, its awful, true belief can be a curse as much as a comfort.

There was a case a while ago of a young mother who was a JW - she needed medical treatment to save her life and was refusing it. Her beliefs lead her to make the decision that it was better to leave her little children now and die rather than be separated from them forever in the afterlife.

It's so sad that people get separated from their families because they are gay, live with a partner before marriage, marry someone from the wrong religion, etc.

seven-day-weekend

Mojisola wrote: »

But they do have a lot of meaning for the people who believe.

Can't you see how people who really, really believe that there is an afterlife and that you have to live in a certain way to get to the good place would find it difficult if their children didn't follow their religion?

If I was a believer, I think I would end up an extremist - this life is just a few years but eternity is forever. It would be heart-breaking to think that your loved ones would be in a bad place for the rest of time.

I don't know whether people who can let their children go their own way don't really believe or think that God will give people a second chance or hope that their children will change their views before they die.

I hope that my son will come to faith at some point. I think he will be given every chance that he needs to make this decision.

I don't have the 'traditional' Christian view of hell.

Mojisola

I find it hard to understand the people who believe that unless someone accepts God into their life, they will not go to heaven, however good a life they lead.

It strikes me that someone who lives a good life because that's the morally right way to live, not because there is the promise of a reward in the afterlife, is a better person than the person whose behaviour is modified by the reward to come.

margaretclare

The problem - going back to the title of this thread - is that although many of us accept that 'force' must not be used, it should ultimately be a matter of personal choice - children have to have some kind of teaching or information to start with, otherwise how are they to make any kind of informed choice?

Going back to my own childhood - admittedly many years ago - I grew up not knowing that there was any choice to be made. I went to Sunday School in the village and memorised a Catechism at home. This Catechism was in 17th century language, as were church services, and what that meant to a young child whose spoken language at home was Yorkshire dialect (now mostly disappeared) is difficult to imagine. 'What is thy name?' 'Who gave you this name?' 'My godfathers and godmothers in my baptism wherein I was made a member of Christ, a child of God, and an inheritor of the kingdom of heaven'. 'My good child, dost thou not think that thou art bound to believe, and to do what they have promised for thee?' 'Yea verily, and by God's help so I will, and I heartily thank our heavenly Father, that he hath called me to this state of salvation...'

No 'force' was ever applied, but tell me what words like these ever meant to a 5-year old child, learning them before bedtime every night?

Up to the present day, we went to the evening service at the CofE church that we attend. This church has been there for 1100 years and for DH at least, he likes the 'aura' in it, and the continuity. But the services are now in modern English. It's continuing, though. Yesterday morning a little baby was baptised, and the church was packed. We were glad we didn't go in the morning, it was really crowded. Our vicar, the Rev Steve, had had 2 very joyous occasions. A wedding on Saturday, and then the baptism Sunday morning. The Rev Steve is a real 'Essex boy', used to be a City trader, but from what he says, he sounds a bit like 7 Day Weekend, to whom it all came late. And to DH.

Growing up in that Yorkshire village, I didn't know there were any other religions. There was church, and chapel, that was it. I didn't meet a Catholic until I went to grammar school - they were the people who stood outside during Assembly. I didn't meet a Jew until a family moved into the school area and a boy and girl joined our school. I knew about Jews, of course, from Old Testament lessons in primary (then called elementary) school, but I didn't know there were any in the modern world.

lostinrates

Mojisola wrote: »

I find it hard to understand the people who believe that unless someone accepts God into their life, they will not go to heaven, however good a life they lead.

It strikes me that someone who lives a good life because that's the morally right way to live, not because there is the promise of a reward in the afterlife, is a better person than the person whose behaviour is modified by the reward to come.

That's a belief system in its own though....(I agree fwiw)

seven-day-weekend

It's not a matter of leading a good life. Lots of people lead a good life.

If someone has made a decision that they don't want God in their life, then that is what they will get and therefore will spend eternity without him too. That is what they wanted.

Mojisola

lostinrates wrote: »

That's a belief system in its own though....(I agree fwiw)

But it has no value in society whereas the major religions have influence over new laws that are made, when the shops open, etc, just because of their belief system.

Person_one

seven-day-weekend wrote: »

It's not a matter of leading a good life. Lots of people lead a good life.

If someone has made a decision that they don't want God in their life, then that is what they will get and therefore will spend eternity without him too. That is what they wanted.

Have you made a decision that you don't want Vishnu, or Thor, or Zeus in your life?

seven-day-weekend

Person_one wrote: »

Have you made a decision that you don't want Vishnu, or Thor, or Zeus in your life?

No, they are irrelevant to my life. Because when I asked for God to reveal himself to me all those years ago, it was not Vishnu or Thor or Zeus who answered.

Person_one

seven-day-weekend wrote: »

No, they are irrelevant to my life.

How you feel about other people's gods is how I feel about your god.