Parents who force their children into religion?

Mojisola

seven-day-weekend wrote: »

I do believe in evolution and I too think the variety of the natural world is amazing and wonderful.

I also believe in a Creator God.

The two have never been incompatible to me, ever since I became a Christian. How I see it is God created the original raw material with all the physical laws, and bingo! off it goes.

There are plenty of scientists who have the same approach.

lostinrates

Mojisola wrote: »

. Our beliefs should be a private matter that affects how we choose to live our lives. National issues like lawmaking and education should be secular.

I agree, I think.

For example, to me the whole marriage/civil partner ship was simple. The state should only offer civil partnership ...to everyone. Gay or straight. Any religious or spiritual 'marriage' should be at a churches or belief centres discretion and not forced upon them by a state. Those who wanted a marriage I'm sure would be offered them.

Similarly, school lunches were mentioned somewhere in the thread, I don't really see an issue with all school lunches being well balanced vegetarian proffering, suitable to the majority of diners, and those with ethical or religious difficulties preventing this consumption could have there own. I'd even probably think vegan food was a good choice. I'm personally slightly uncomfortable with soya and meat replacements, (though love meat) so might have been a lunch boxer. but we could all eat which ever meat was acceptable around this on our own time at home.

Problems come into issues with choice of clothing and choice of religious garb etc.

lostinrates

Btw, its really nice to have a really nice, discussion on a contentious issue where people are all being respectful. I'd just like to to thank op and all respondents. Its cheered me up that we can all be so civil.

Rowingirl

seven-day-weekend wrote: »

I do believe in evolution and I too think the variety of the natural world is amazing and wonderful.

I also believe in a Creator God.

The two have never been incompatible to me, ever since I became a Christian. How I see it is God created the original raw material with all the physical laws, and bingo! off it goes.

The people I'm referring to believe in creationism as told in Genesis and see evolution as a poor attempt by biologists to explain life on Earth. For them evolution and creationism are incompatible as only creationism is right. I know not all Christains share their views.

seven-day-weekend

lostinrates wrote: »

I agree, I think.

For example, to me the whole marriage/civil partner ship was simple. The state should only offer civil partnership ...to everyone. Gay or straight. Any religious or spiritual 'marriage' should be at a churches or belief centres discretion and not forced upon them by a state. Those who wanted a marriage I'm sure would be offered them.

Similarly, school lunches were mentioned somewhere in the thread, I don't really see an issue with all school lunches being well balanced vegetarian proffering, suitable to the majority of diners, and those with ethical or religious difficulties preventing this consumption could have there own. I'd even probably think vegan food was a good choice. I'm personally slightly uncomfortable with soya and meat replacements, (though love meat) so might have been a lunch boxer. but we could all eat which ever meat was acceptable around this on our own time at home.

Problems come into issues with choice of clothing and choice of religious garb etc.

I agree with what you say about marriage.

And largely about school dinners too. If it's vegetarian anyone can eat it. Those who are picky can take a (non-policed) lunch box.

seven-day-weekend

Rowingirl wrote: »

The people I'm referring to believe in creationism as told in Genesis and see evolution as a poor attempt by biologists to explain life on Earth. For them evolution and creationism are incompatible as only creationism is right. I know not all Christains share their views.

Yes, I understood what you meant, I just wanted you to know that you can be a practising Christian and not hold those rigid views. Seems you knew that anyway, but many don't.

andygb

Cloudydaze wrote: »

This is what I struggle with as well. I also wonder at what point does God decide that we have been given enough chances to believe.

I take it God wouldn't condemn a baby who dies to hell even though they are incapable of believing. What about a 7 yr old? Or maybe its once you are legally an adult?

I'm 40 and I'm an atheist. I don't have 'faith' because nothing has convinced me of an existence of a God. If God exists and he made me, why has he made it so difficult for me to believe? Doesn't he like me? Does he want me to go to hell?

This is how the Catholic church regards baptism, chidren and original sin.

http://www.catholic.com/tracts/infant-baptism

The church differentiates between original and actual sin, because they see original sin as a great collective sin, passed on to eneryone in mankind - this in my opinion, is the first way to scare people by making them feel guilty, a guilt so great that only baptism will save them.
Religion has not been built from love, but from fear - fear of hell, fear of divine retribution.
It is like the absurd idea of confession, that you go to church, enter the confessional, and seperated from the priest by a screen, tell him what you have done wrong in the last week/month/year/lifetime - I just used to make things up, because he kept asking me if I had any more to tell him:) Then at the end, he will give you some pennance (prayers to say for your atonement) - three Hail Marys and an Our Father used to be a common one.
Once out, you were absolved and free to carry on raping and pillaging as before - this was one of the things I used to question - a lot! The teachers were really hacked off with me - all I wanted were answers:(

seven-day-weekend

andygb wrote: »

This is how the Catholic church regards baptism, chidren and original sin.

http://www.catholic.com/tracts/infant-baptism

The church differentiates between original and actual sin, because they see original sin as a great collective sin, passed on to eneryone in mankind - this in my opinion, is the first way to scare people by making them feel guilty, a guilt so great that only baptism will save them.
Religion has not been built from love, but from fear - fear of hell, fear of divine retribution.
It is like the absurd idea of confession, that you go to church, enter the confessional, and seperated from the priest by a screen, tell him what you have done wrong in the last week/month/year/lifetime - I just used to make things up, because he kept asking me if I had any more to tell him:) Then at the end, he will give you some pennance (prayers to say for your atonement) - three Hail Marys and an Our Father used to be a common one.
Once out, you were absolved and free to carry on raping and pillaging as before - this was one of the things I used to question - a lot! The teachers were really hacked off with me - all I wanted were answers:(

The priest can't give you forgiveness. Only God can do that and you have to genuinely be sorry . You're not supposed to grimace , say 'sorry!' like a teenage Kevin, walk away and carry on doing exactly the same thing, you are supposed to want to live differently and try your best to do so.

We all try, we all fail. But it's the wanting to try and actually trying that is the important thing.

neverdespairgirl

Rowingirl wrote: »

For me the most frustrating thing is the belief that people who don't believe in creationism or intelligent design have a very one-dimensional and grey view of the world. I can't imagine anything more incredible & amazing than the evolution of animals, plants, cells & genes into the current variety & abundance of life on Earth.

My mother is pretty religious, and also a scientist. She finds the wonder of everything, looked at through science, adds to her belief, rather than detracts from it.

Torry_Quine

neverdespairgirl wrote: »

My mother is pretty religious, and also a scientist. She finds the wonder of everything, looked at through science, adds to her belief, rather than detracts from it.

I agree. I find it very sad that many seem to divide people into scientists or believers when you can be both.