Compensation for delayed flights Discussion Area

ltzig1

I have the problem where we were delayed 24 hours in 2011 from Preveza to Manchester with Olympic Holidays, flying with tor air (which have now gone bust). I don't have the relevant documents but I have the credit card statement.....can I still make a claim?

Maddyisretired

Our flight was from Granada to Stanstead in 2009. Reason given for delay was mechanical fault. Most passengers spent the night on the floor in the airport. I have sent five letters to Ryanair claiming compensation and have just received my fifth reply. The line they are sticking to is that the mechanical problems were "exceptional circumstances" and that I cannot claim as my flight was more than 2 years ago. I have quoted to them all the relevant legislation as provided through the various threads, and initially from Martins articles, and asked them to explain why their view of the legislation differs from that of the various Judgements; to no avail. Having read a lot of the comments on the threads, it would seem that individuals will get nowhere or will get tied up in court cases.
Is it worth asking one or more of the television consumer programmes to take up the battle against Ryanair? After all several other airlines are apparently paying out to claimants. I am thinking of "Rip off Britain" or "Rogue Traders". anyone care to join me
I also resent having to pay for postage for my letters while Ryanair e-mails me their responses.

Maddy

Mark2spark

ltzig1 wrote: »

I have the problem where we were delayed 24 hours in 2011 from Preveza to Manchester with Olympic Holidays, flying with tor air (which have now gone bust). I don't have the relevant documents but I have the credit card statement.....can I still make a claim?

My post at 5058 holds true.

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/47230

Airline bust = no claim

See the posting at 3 below this one.

Mark2spark

Maddyisretired wrote: »

Our flight was from Granada to Stanstead in 2009. Reason given for delay was mechanical fault. Most passengers spent the night on the floor in the airport. I have sent five letters to Ryanair claiming compensation and have just received my fifth reply. The line they are sticking to is that the mechanical problems were "exceptional circumstances" and that I cannot claim as my flight was more than 2 years ago. I have quoted to them all the relevant legislation as provided through the various threads, and initially from Martins articles, and asked them to explain why their view of the legislation differs from that of the various Judgements; to no avail. Having read a lot of the comments on the threads, it would seem that individuals will get nowhere or will get tied up in court cases.
Is it worth asking one or more of the television consumer programmes to take up the battle against Ryanair? After all several other airlines are apparently paying out to claimants. I am thinking of "Rip off Britain" or "Rogue Traders". anyone care to join me
I also resent having to pay for postage for my letters while Ryanair e-mails me their responses.

Maddy

You need to go to court, simple as that. Relying on the possibility that a TV show might make Ryanair suddenly cough up to the thousands of people that they are denying their rightful compensation to is clutching at straws.

Mark2spark

dras wrote: »

They send me that reply 10 days ago.

Straight to court then, they have incriminated themselves. Open and shut case.

Mark2spark

FAQ's with amendments.

All blue words are links to relevant posts. Some are quoted just to save you doing that

WARNING
Claiming may not be a walk in the park. So research this (long) thread and the MSE article in order to discover useful information before you ask a question!

Airline bust= no claim

Anything from 17th Feb 2005 -you can claim but if the airline says no - you can't take them to court.

Flight Stats

Small claims time limit Its 6 years

Package holiday flights ARE covered.

Regulation261\2004

MSE article corrected

Technical fault with plane is NOT "extra ordinary circumstances" so you CAN claim
Extraordinary circumstances + Extra ordinary Circumstances
Technical issues
More Technical issues with background

Thomas Cook address
Thomas cook incident Oct 26 2012

KLM Claim form
Ryanair address
BA Address
BA complaint web-site

BA forum explaining the regulation in plain english *ESSENTIAL READING*

Jet airways address
Compensation per person + Monarch email
Monarch Claim form

Centipede100 Template letter
CAA Template letter


Airline claims 2 years maximum to claim The UK time limit is 6 years, - that's the Law

Judgement on 22nd NOV confirms the limit is whatever applies in the Country-UK is 6 years
CAA Denied boarding
Right to Care
CAA contact details New!
European small claims

Original Sturgeon judgment giving rise to delay compensation:

Legal challenge to Sturgeon judgment:

MCOL:

MCOL/ County Court wording to use in challenge to extraordinary circumstances defence

ltzig1

I understand that but it was a package holiday, I paid Olympic Holidays?

Caz3121

ltzig1 wrote: »

I understand that but it was a package holiday, I paid Olympic Holidays?

But the EU regulations apply to the airline and the airline and not the holiday company are responsible for paying compensation

blondmark

Sure. Ryanair paid up in full no problem - very obliging people to do business with.

Here are the steps:

1. Write to: Ryanair Customer Services, PO Box 11451, Swords, Co Dublin, Ireland giving 14 days to settle. They either ignore you or send some implausible story about extraordinary circumstances, which you reject.

2. On the 14th day you complete a form on the courts.ie website called 'European Small Claims Procedure Form A Claim Form'. Attach your story and any relevant evidence and post it to Swords District Court, 4 Bridge Street, Swords, Co. Dublin, Ireland, authorising them to debit the 25 euro court fee from your bank.

3. Ryanair enters its bogus defence about extraordinary circumstances and the court asks for your response. You address the issues citing EU case law (something along the lines of what's below). The court then, hopefully, enters judgment in your favour and Ryanair sends you a fortune plus costs and interest. :beer:

And why not? They're already charging every passenger a premium to cover their 261/2004 liability. Never could understand why the OFT doesn't take legal action over Ryanair extracting money from the public in exchange for them complying with their existing legal obligations - a bit like the police charging you to attend a burglary!

Anyway, the Irish Statute of Limitations [1957] also allows claims from up to 6 years ago ... so get searching through your emails for those delayed Ryanair flights and follow steps 1-3.

Since the More -v- KLM judgment I'm pushing a second Irish claim through against Ryanair and another against Thomson (through an English county court). Both ignored my 14 day Letter Before Claim - such rudeness!

Happy suing!


This is the kind of response to 'extraordinary circumstances' the court is looking for:

The Defendant has failed to particularise firstly what this alleged technical fault was, secondly why this alleged technical fault was not inherent in the normal exercise of the activity of the air carrier and thirdly why such alleged fault was beyond the Defendant's control.

Under the Regulation, the Defendant has the burden of proving its defence. It has failed to do so; it has merely alleged that it was subject to "Extraordinary Circumstances" but without providing the court with one shred of evidence to back up its claim or any details of the circumstances. It is suggested that even if it were to prove the existence of technical problems, this would fall outside the ambit of "Extraordinary Circumstances" which is cited in the Recitals to the Regulation as:

• political instability;
• meteorological conditions incompatible with the operation of the flight concerned;
• security risks;
• unexpected flight safety shortcoming; and
• situations that affect the operation of an operating air carrier".

None of these issues would appear to apply. Indeed a detailed technical investigation would be required to understand the legitimacy of this defence, and whether it falls within the allowable ambit of "Extraordinary Circumstances" and whether the Defendant had in fact taken all reasonable measures to avoid the delay. To qualify, the exceptional circumstance has to be “extraordinary”, and no evidence is forthcoming that it was anything other than routine.

The Defendant claims that the circumstances were "beyond their control", again without citing why, or even evidencing any such circumstances or the degree of control they actually had.

The concept of "Extraordinary Circumstances" implies circumstances that could not have been avoided even if all reasonable measures had been taken, but it appears that the Defendant merely had technical problems that they failed to particularise and failed to evidence.

The case of Friederike Wallentin-Hermann V Alitalia – Linee Aeree Italiane Spa is the recognised legal authority for what constitutes "Extraordinary Circumstances" and it is summarised for the Court’s guidance in the attachment to this letter.

In all the circumstances, it is irrefutable that the Defendant's defence falls outside the narrow definition of "Extraordinary Circumstances" set out by the ECJ in Wallentin-Hermann.

Fletchasketch wrote: »

Is anyone else on here trying to claim with Ryanair? Any successes?

Sent a claim letter after the flight in 2009, recorded delivery to Dublin and received no response. It wasn't the template though, do I still need to contact Ryanair before going down the court route. Every time I try to use the complaints feedback form it crashes.

Weird that.

ltzig1

Caz3121 wrote: »

But the EU regulations apply to the airline and the airline and not the holiday company are responsible for paying compensation

It also says package holiday flights are covered!?