Compensation for delayed flights Discussion Area

Dopey1980

Centipede100 wrote: »

Notice (or Letter) before Action example can be found here: *Link removed due to being a newbie*

I do mean small claims court when I state legal proceedings.

I'm still waiting from a reply from KLM to my last email to them.

I recently suffered bad service from AF. I complained but didn't get anywhere. Once I received an email saying that they considered the case closed they ignored me by not responding to any further emails. Eventually after contacting the CEO my case was reopened and the matter dealt with. For some reason the person that dealt with my complaint with AF is the same person that is dealing with my claim for compensation with KLM.

If I send a Letter before Action will this be enough to force them to pay up or should I also start with legal action? I'm hoping to get my compensation without any financial outlay from myself you see.

I'm going to give it a few days before sending KLM a further email with the advice given in post 2262 before sending a Letter before Action.

blindman

kwikyrag wrote: »

does the compensation apply to package holiday delays

As has been answered many times before-YES it applies to the flight part of the package.

Never_Enough_Money

Centipede100 wrote: »

Even if you take the airline's word that the flight landed at 10pm rather than the time your daughter remembers, it is still delayed in excess of the 3 hours which the judgment states is the cut off time after which compensation may be claimed.

The compensation in your daughter's case is 400 euros (£320)per passenger .

Thanks Centipede100, the lady at Monarch told her she needs to wait for them to send her a claim form and that they are not available yet as their lawyer is still looking over the paperwork from a courtcase at the end of October so she has to wait for her to send her one, can this be right? She was just going to send them the letter she filled in from the template from this website. Do you think she should wait for them to send a form or go ahead and send the letter she has already done?

blindman

JPears wrote: »

Just about to resubmit my claim to Jet2. On 12 Feb 2011 our inbound flight from ski holdiay Chambery to Leeds was delayed by 5.5 hours minimum. Flight number LS452
.........had been delayed because of a technical fault .

Under the latest ruling you have a valid claim.

Look at Centipedes template letter and send it off with a Proof of postage.

blindman

Never_Enough_Money wrote: »

Thanks Centipede100, the lady at Monarch told her she needs to wait for them to send her a claim form and that they are not available yet as their lawyer is still looking over the paperwork from a courtcase at the end of October so she has to wait for her to send her one, can this be right? She was just going to send them the letter she filled in from the template from this website. Do you think she should wait for them to send a form or go ahead and send the letter she has already done?

Sounds like delaying tactics to me TBHO

Tell her to send the template letter now-nothing like the threat of imminent court action to speed up lawyers reading!

terry_not_the_corry_one

Hi in 2008 we got delayed 23hrs on the way back from the canaries. we got put up in a hotel for the night, with a voucher towards the cost of a meal. what i want to know is are package holiday flights included????

Dopey1980

Centipede100 wrote: »

Perhaps at this I should repeat the advice I have given to potential claimants regularly over the past few weeks as many have recently joined the forum and won't have had the opportunity to trawl back through recent pages.

There are a number of different methods to pursue your claim for delay compensation now that judgement has been handed down on October 23rd:

1. You can hand your claim over to a claims handling company to deal with on your behalf. This will mean that you would forfeit between 25-30% of the value of your claim to the claim handling company.
2. You can check whether you have access to legal expenses cover via either your household contents insurance policy, or credit card provider or travel insurance. You would then hand over the claim to them but in this instance you would, if successful, retain the whole value of the claim.
3. You can pursue your claim on your own. This will not be a simple letter-writing exercise as airlines will vigorously defend all such claims and I fully expect that claimants will not just have to threaten court action but will have to go to small claims court and have the case heard in front of a District Judge. The airlines will employ legal counsel in such cases so this is not a straightforward route unless you are prepared to put in considerable time, researching and preparing your claim. You will also have to pay the appropriate court fees in advance which are of course repaid to you by the airline in the event that you win the case. Cases will take between 6-9 months from start of launch of claim to a hearing or judgement being handed down so this method requires patience and tenacity in equal measure. Remember too that there are likely to be a large backlog of claims built up whilst the legal stay has been in place which will delay resolution still further.

The following template letter can be adapted to your individual circumstances to send to the airline with your claim for delay compensation. This example was written for a Monarch passenger but it can be adapted for other airlines and circumstances:

Mr Geoff Atkinson
Monarch Airlines Ltd
Prospect House
Prospect Way
London Luton Airport
Luton
LU2 9NU

Dear Mr Atkinson

Delayed Flight Compensation
Flight number: (insert here)
Date: (insert here)
Booking Ref: (insert here)
Passenger names: (insert here)
Amount claimed: 250/400/600 (delete as applicable) euros per passenger

I am writing to you to lodge my claim for delayed flight compensation. Our flight (detailed above) was delayed leaving xxxx and we arrived in xxxx some xx hours after the scheduled arrival time.

I am aware that judgement has been handed down in the current ECJ case (C-629/10) on October 23rd 2012, and I wish to proceed with my claim.

We were informed that the flight was delayed overnight due to 'technical difficulties with the aircraft.' Since technical problems have been ruled by the ECJ to be unlikely to be held as a valid defence of extraordinary circumstances to a compensation claim, then should you be claiming any such defence I should be grateful if such details could be provided to me within 14 days of the date of this letter.

Should you neither settle my claim in full nor provide a full defence to my claim within the above timescale, I reserve the right to issue legal proceedings without giving you further notice in writing.

I look forward to hearing from you.

Yours sincerely

xxxxx


Only send this, however, if you are going to take one of the 3 routes above. If you have no intention of pursuing the claim, including taking it to court, then you are wasting your time.

The airline may still be able to prove a valid defence of "extraordinary circumstances" in a number of cases so it is worth researching/checking whether there is a likelihood of this defence holding up "on the balance of probabilities" which is the legal test used in the County Court small claims track under which most claims will be heard.

Thank you for that. I'm going to put here a copy of all communication between KLM and myself and hopefully you can advise what next.

1. I submitted my claim

2. Their response... (by email)

"Dear Mr Barker,

I have been requested to contact you by our Social Media department regarding the delay to a flight from Amsterdam to Calgary on 1 October, 2009.

I appreciate the opportunity to respond to your request and should clarify that according to Article 35 of the Montreal Convention the right to damages shall be extinguished if an action is not brought within a period of two years, reckoned from the date of arrival at the destination, or from the date on which the aircraft ought to have arrived, or from the date on which the carriage stopped.

Thank you for your understanding.

I can assure you that we are well aware of our commitment to provide excellent customer service and so I do hope you will allow us the privilege to serve your travel needs again in the near future.

Yours sincerely,

J Silverstone (Mr)
Customer Care Europe"

3. My reply (incidentally, my initial claim and all subsequent replies have had to be passed to Mr. Silverstone through the KLM facebook page as their complaints/claim page of their website doesn't seem to like my Mac)

"Dear Mr. Silverstone,

Thank you very much for getting back to me so promptly, this is most appreciated.

I was disappointed to read that you are unwilling to proceed with my claim.

May I draw your attention to the following article posted on a long running, very well respected money saving advice website here in the U.K.

w w w money savingexpert.com /news/travel/2012/10/flight-delay-compensation-floodgates-open

The article states that due to a change in legislation claims may be submitted for flights that departed on, or after the 17th of February 2005. The article does not state that only people who had submitted a claim which had been put on hold are allowed to proceed. In fact, the article states that anyone can claim, regardless of whether they had a claim on hold or had no claim submitted at all.

I put it to you that you aren't aware of the new ruling. May I suggest you familiarise yourself with regards to the new ruling and process my claim promptly.

Regards
Mr. Barker"

4. KLM's response (by email)...

"Dear Mr Barker,

Thank you for your message and I appreciate the opportunity to respond to your request for compensation following the delay to flight KL677 on 1 October 2009 from Amsterdam to Calgary

Our records confirm a delay of 3 hours and 40 minutes due to repairs of three unserviceable toilets.

According to EU recommendations, airline passengers are entitled to compensation in case of delays longer than 3 hours - unless the delay was caused by extraordinary circumstances over which we could not exercise any influence.

We have carefully reconsidered your request and taken into account all relevant details for your delayed flight. Consequently, we confirm that the circumstances which caused this delay are considered 'extraordinary' according to the European Union regulation. As a result, I must respectively decline your request once more.

Thank you for allowing us this opportunity to clarify our position in this matter. Thank you for allowing us this opportunity to clarify our position in this matter. I do hope that we will have an early opportunity to service your travel needs again in the future.

Yours sincerely,

J Silverstone (Mr)
Customer Care Europe"

5. My reply...

"Dear Mr. Silverstone,

Thank you for your email of 1st of November 2012.

I was interested to note that you specified a delayed time of 3 hours and 40 minutes. The article I directed you to states...

"Passengers can claim compensation if the following conditions are met:
The flight arrived at its destination three hours or more late."

Note, the key word here being "destination". According to the 'flightstats' website that the article recommends the flight arrived at YYC at 8:44pm and was scheduled to arrive at 4:20pm. This gives a delay of 4 hours and 24 minutes. I have attached a screen shot at the bottom of this message for your inspection
.
With respect, the delay was caused by a blocked toilet(s). This is a maintenance issue and therefore within your control.

I again submit my claim to you and trust you will deal with it expeditiously or I will have no alternative but to refer the matter to the appropriate regulatory authority.

*screen shot from flightstats*

Regards
Mr. Barker"

6. Their response, this time it wasn't emailed it to me. It was passed to me through the KLM facebook page social media team via private message...

"Dear Liam,

Thank you so much for your patience! We wanted to let you know that we received a reply from Mr. Silverstone about your file 6073*****, where he is informing the following:

Blocked toilet is often caused by actions of other passengers. If on a previous flight the aircraft had recently arrived into Amsterdam or another destination and this was discovered during pre-flight checks prior to aircraft departure for Toronto, it could not have been foreseen. Therefore we consider extraordinary circumstances as per EU261 article 5-3.

We have been informed that your file has been handled and closed. If you do not agree with the reply of Customer Care or are dissatiesfied, we kindle refer you to the Civil Aviation Authority.

We regret very much that we can not inform you more positively about the outcome of your file, Liam.

If you have any other questions for us, please let us know.

Kind regards,
KLM Facebook Team"

7. My response (I'm still waiting for a response to this...)

"Dear Mr. Silverstone,

I appreciate the time you have taken to respond to me. However, over the weekend I have joined an aviation forum and asked for advice on there. I have also been following a thread on the MSE website that carried the article regarding compensation. I have included a link below for you to look at one post in particular. The general consensus from those in the know, of which 2 have successfully sued airlines over delays is the fact that you are using "extraordinary circumstances" for a blocked toilet to get out of paying is laughable. All gave examples of "extraordinary circumstances" as being things like unexploded WWII bombs found near the runway during excavation works, mass staff walk outs, and ash clouds from volcanoes. Not once was blocked toilet(s) given as an example of an "extraordinary circumstances".

I was also advised on the forum that I should also try taking my complaint to the media due to the lack of satisfactory service and response and lack of empathy in dealing with my case
.
I'd also like to point out that at the time we were informed that it was only one blocked toilet but since putting in a claim this has suddenly became 3 blocked toilets. I can't help but feel that the actual number of blocked toilets has been exaggerated in order to try and make the use "extraordinary circumstance" seem more plausible.

May I also bring to your attention this post and information and links within it, particularly the parts that quite clearly state that technical issues with the aircraft can't be classed as "extraordinary circumstances"

w w w money savingexpert.com /showpost.php?p=57023411&postcount=174

I'm a fair man and I am willing to give you one final opportunity to settle my claim before I take things much further.

Regards
Mr. Barker"

I've had to put some spaces in the links to be able to post them.

StephenDouglas_2

I was delayed on a flight in 2007 due to technical problems, The flight was delayed 24 hours and I had to stay in a hotel. I did write a letter of complaint at the time be no compensation was offered at that time. The problem is that Globespan airline has gone bankrupt and have ceased trading as far as I know.....Can I still make a claim to the administrators???? or is there any way to make a claim????

lissa_23

Hi all,

My 3 friends and I were delayed for 6hrs on our return flight from Dublin to Stansted on 19th June 2011.

As we didn't know we could make a claim until now, we didn't keep any paperwork so don't have the booking reference but we know the time and date of the flight and I have determined the flight number from looking at future flights at the same time on the Ryanair website.

It's not very obvious how to make a claim on the Ryanair website (surprise, surprise!) so is it best to write a letter and have it sent by recorded delivery! And to which address?

Thanks for your help with this.

Lissa

katykitten

how do i find out the number of a flight with thomson in 2010 going out of marrrakesh - i know it was delayed by several hours (my sis was extrememly unwell in airport - nightmare) and the exact date 10.11.10 but nothing else remains - tried looking on the flight status site but they seem to need the flight number