Compensation for delayed flights Discussion Area

mac54

Hi all,

following excellent information on the forum and advice from Ian41 I sent my letter to Thomas Cook on 8th Feb, detailing my claim for the delay under the regs, accepting that the ECJ has yet to make a ruling. (Looks like March 20th will be interesting). It was sent recorded delivery and I have the receipt of delivery.
As of this morning they have not replied.

Advice please, where do I go from here?

many thanks in advance

Mac54

mac54

Hi all (again).

I am listing this separately from the delay posting.
As in previous post, claim sent off recorded delivery. Again no reply.

Advice please, if different from delay claim

many thanks

Mac54

Lucy333

ian41 wrote: »

This will be of particular interest to the reported thousands waiting to either file claims or take legal action in the UK, following eligible flight delays in excess of 3 hours.

There is a hearing listed at the ECJ for 20 March 2012 for Case C-581/10 (which now consists of joined Cases C-629/10 and C-581/10). It is Case C-629/10 which is of particular interest to those passengers on flights delayed in excess of 3 hours and claiming for compensation in the UK.

In this Case, the ECJ has been asked for clarification ("reference for a preliminary ruling") on specific points following what is known as the Sturgeon ruling.

It might not be the end of the matter but it should be the beginning of the end and should provide some visibility.

In view of its importance, this has been posted twice - once on the main forum and this post under the compensation thread.

Hi Everyone,

First time poster, long time lurker!

Thanks for this update.

I was on a Monarch flight from Gatwick to Grenoble over half term, they boarded us at 0910, flight was due to leave at 0930 but then they found a water leak, so we sat on the plane for 3 hours whilst it was fixed. Flight eventually left at 1235. During this time they couldn't offer us any refreshments (including cans/bottles) as they had no water on the plane. Even more galling we then had to pay for drinks when we finally got airborne (told by stewardess "Monarch doesn't offer drinks unless flight delayed by more than 3.5 hours).

I've written to Monarch asking for compensation in line with the above ruling, and they have written back stating that all compensation claims have been suspended by the high court whilst this ECJ review is happening. They also stated flight left 2 hours 48 minutes late, which is incorrect.

My question is, where can I get confirmation about the flight departure time, and should I pursue them further or wait for the ruling?

Thanks all

ian41

Lucy333 wrote: »

Hi Everyone,

First time poster, long time lurker!

Thanks for this update.

I was on a Monarch flight from Gatwick to Grenoble over half term, they boarded us at 0910, flight was due to leave at 0930 but then they found a water leak, so we sat on the plane for 3 hours whilst it was fixed. Flight eventually left at 1235. During this time they couldn't offer us any refreshments (including cans/bottles) as they had no water on the plane. Even more galling we then had to pay for drinks when we finally got airborne (told by stewardess "Monarch doesn't offer drinks unless flight delayed by more than 3.5 hours).

I've written to Monarch asking for compensation in line with the above ruling, and they have written back stating that all compensation claims have been suspended by the high court whilst this ECJ review is happening. They also stated flight left 2 hours 48 minutes late, which is incorrect.

My question is, where can I get confirmation about the flight departure time, and should I pursue them further or wait for the ruling?

Thanks all

Flight number, date, scheduled departure and arrival times would be helpful to get the actual times checked.

Once you supply the data, I will check it.

Both you and Monarch have got it wrong re the timing aspect. Compensation for Delay becomes payable after a delayed arrival of more than 3 hours (not departure) see Sturgeon ruling here:

http://curia.europa.eu/juris/document/document.jsf?text=261%2F2004&docid=73703&pageIndex=0&doclang=en&mode=req&dir=&occ=first&part=1&cid=23766#ctx1

Regarding Refreshments Article 6.1(a) of EC Reg 261/2004 is explicit and overrides Monarch's T&Cs. For flights up to 1500kms, refreshments should be offered after a delay of 2 hours.

I await your answers

ian41

mac54 wrote: »

Hi all,

Advice please, where do I go from here?

Mac54

Suspect that most airlines will refrain from replying substantively re delay claims until after the March hearing. This will be in case a judgment is issued by the ECJ after the hearing.

So let's wait and see what happens. The second claim is not subject to the ECJ hearing but it may be that they need more time to work out their response. You might get a reply on this at any time but suggest that you give them some more time.

In the meantime, it might be useful if you post a full copy of your letters on the forum - deleting your names, addresses and any personal details.

ian41

ih8modem wrote: »

Many thanks ian41. We will follow this up and make sure to post the outcome. I suspect as you do BA will claim extraordinary circumstances.

In addition to my post# 1421, I should have given you the BA contacts for your claim as follows:

On-line

British Airways Customer Relations on-line at http://ba.com/euclaim. The person making the claim must be one of the passengers.

Or in writing

British Airways Customer Relations, EU Compensation Claims, PO Box 5619, Sudbury, Suffolk, CO10 2PG, United Kingdom.The person making the claim must be one of the passengers.

Hope that helps.

mac54

ian41 wrote: »

Suspect that most airlines will refrain from replying substantively re delay claims until after the March hearing. This will be in case a judgment is issued by the ECJ after the hearing.

So let's wait and see what happens. The second claim is not subject to the ECJ hearing but it may be that they need more time to work out their response. You might get a reply on this at any time but suggest that you give them some more time.

In the meantime, it might be useful if you post a full copy of your letters on the forum - deleting your names, addresses and any personal details.

Letters as requested. Thanks again.

Name and Address

8th February 2012

Thomas Cook Airlines
Customer Relations
2-4 Goodwin Street.
Bradford.
BD1 2ST

Dear Sirs
Flight number TCX373
Date 17th December 2011.
Booking reference. xxxxxx. Cruise xxxxx
Passenger names. Mrxxx. Mrs. xxx.
You reference number. xxx/xxx
Thank you for your letter dated 11th January 2012.
In your letter you state that our “flight was affected by a series of different issues that all impacted on the departure time” and that only the initial problems would be recorded on the insurance letter.
This ‘insurance letter’ was only handed to us on exiting the aircraft at Manchester Airport. As such rights under regulation EC 261/2004 were unknown whilst delayed in Barbados. This letter and its subsequently amended version attribute the extended delay to an “unforeseen operationally significant defect which required rectification prior to further flight”.
Under EC Reg 261/2004 and the subsequent Sturgeon Judgment dated 19 November 2009, and following the long delay of approximately 52 hours on Flight TCX373 on 17th December 2011, I am claiming Euro 600 compensation, per passenger (Euro1200) at the appropriate exchange rate.
"Should you wish to claim a defence of extraordinary circumstances, I ask you to submit proof to me that meets or exceeds the very high standards set out by the ECJ in both the Wallentin-Hermann and Sturgeon rulings dated 22/12/2008 and 19/11/2009 respectively. In this context, it is insufficient to merely claim extraordinary circumstances, as the Regulation requires you to prove it and I would like to examine the robustness of such evidence."

If you fail to provide me with answers or co-operate with me fully, I must also draw your attention to the relevant Practice Direction concerning pre-action conduct prior to court proceedings. If necessary, I will produce copies of our correspondence to the Court at the appropriate time."

In summary, if you wish to continue with a defence of extraordinary circumstances, please provide me with full answers as requested above. Alternatively, please send me a cheque for £1007.76 in full settlement of the compensation due (i.e. Euro 600 at the ECB official exchange rate of 0.83980 GBP = 1 Euro on 19th December 2011). Either way, I am giving you 14 days from today's date to reply. Failing that, I reserve the right to take any appropriate action at any time to recover this sum without further notice.
Yours Sincerely
Mr.xxx

Name and address

10th February 2012

Thomas Cook Airlines
Customer Relations
2-4 Goodwin Street.
Bradford.
BD1 2ST

Dear Sirs
Flight number TCX373
Date 17th December 2011.
Booking reference. xxxxxx. Cruise xxxxx
Passenger names. Mr.xxx. Mrs.xxx.

Our flight home was downgraded and therefore we could not have the premium seats that we had paid for. We subsequently received a cheque for £199.00 attached to a letter of apology from P and O. (Their case reference Cxx-xxxxxx-xxxx).
I have since discovered that downgrading is covered in Article 10 of REGULATION (EC) No 261/2004
Article 10
Upgrading and downgrading

1. If an operating air carrier places a passenger in a class higher than that for which the ticket was purchased, it may not request any supplementary payment.

2. If an operating air carrier places a passenger in a class lower than that for which the ticket was purchased, it shall within seven days, by the means provided for in Article 7(3), reimburse

(a) 30 % of the price of the ticket for all flights of 1 500 kilometres or less, or
(b) 50 % of the price of the ticket for all intra-Community flights of more than 1 500 kilometres, except flight between the European territory of the Member States and the French overseas departments, and for all other flights between 1 500 and 3 500 kilometres, or
(c) 75 % of the price of the ticket for all flights not falling under (a) or (b), including flights between the European territory of the Member States and the French overseas departments.

I believe that the downgrading of our flight is covered under (c) and I therefore expect a refund amounting to 75% of the cost of 2 premium economy class seats.

I await your reply.

Yours Sincerely
Mr.xxx.


As an aside for anybody coming to this forum looking for advice. When I first came on I was annoyed and angry. With help from the forum I feel that I am now 'getting somewhere'. If you feel aggrieved and if the advice is that you have a valid claim, then persevere. I now look forward to 20th March.

ian41

rich987652 wrote: »

Ian, many thanks for your advice.

They also have a comment saying:
*EU residents: US Airways processes all written customer feedback in our headquarters location in Tempe, Arizona, U.S

This is slightly ambiguous as the mailing address is in Phoenix but this refers to Tempe. I assume I should still write to the address in Phoenix, but any response will come from Tempe.

Looking back at my notes on previous US Airways claims, most have been submitted online. If you provide an email address to them, it will speed up the process. Copies of emails are acceptable when using the UK small claims track. Don't forget you can always add a letter as an attachment.

It will not matter which address you use.

Just for your interest. If US Airways believe they might be at fault, their response has been to offer the complainant a US Airways "E-TUV" travel voucher for $600 with a 12 month validity. Unless you want to experience US Airways again, you would reject this and demand money. They then tend to offer a TUV with a higher value - sometimes $1000 - which you might reject/accept. I prefer cash rather than being tied to one airline but let's wait and see what they say. The response to you/your wife may be completely different.

Remember that as your wife is the passenger, any claim/letter should be in her name.

Please do update the forum with all news and I will try to help if required.

ih8modem

ian41 wrote: »

In addition to my post# 1421, I should have given you the BA contacts for your claim as follows:

On-line

British Airways Customer Relations on-line at <link removed> The person making the claim must be one of the passengers.

Or in writing

British Airways Customer Relations, EU Compensation Claims, PO Box 5619, Sudbury, Suffolk, CO10 2PG, United Kingdom.The person making the claim must be one of the passengers.

Hope that helps.

Tried the online option, got message that the claim cannot be processed within 3 days of departure time. Will now proceed with the claim in writing.

Some info. As the passengers disembarked they were all issued with a letter from BA apologising for the delay. It stated the aircraft developed a technical fault after take-off. It also lists the replacement flight details for the following day. I can scan a copy of this letter if you would like to see it, but it appears to be a rather generic letter printed off in a hurry.

Will keep you informed.

Lucy3333

Thanks Ian41

Was struggling to log in so have had to change username!

Flight was MON 2084 from Gatwick to Grenoble on Saturday 11th February. Scheduled to depart at 0930, finally left at 1240. But I didn't note what time we actually arrived. But they certainly had us sat on the runway for 3 hours with no refreshments. They're claiming it would have delayed us further and therefore is not applicable.

Thanks