The Mobile Outlet

stoner_2

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/investigates/2008/02/21/great-mobile-cashback-robbery-gets-worse-89520-20326675/



Great Mobile Cashback Robbery gets worse



Penman & Sommerlad21/02/2008

The fallout from the Great Mobile Cashback Robbery gets worse by the week.
Two more dealers that offered rebates to customers are set to go to the wall without paying them.
Cashback sweeteners are offered by phone dealers to attract new customers - if you sign up and pay the line rental you are promised money back.
That's if you meet often strict terms and conditions. And if the dealer doesn't go bust trying to pay you.

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Those are two big ifs.
Peter Button of Shepperton, Middlesex, took out two phone contracts online through Yorkshire dealer The Mobile Outlet.
He was offered 10 months' cashback on a 12-month contract - meaning he'd pay just £70 per phone instead of £420. After six months he tried to claim the first half of his cashback but was told he'd missed a 21-day deadline.
This meant that, under the firm's tight T&Cs, he would also forfeit all future cashbacks, leaving him £700 short.
Director Attif Ashraf admitted that around six in 10 customers failed to claim their cashback correctly.
"We used to pay all our cashback," said Attif, from Gateshead.
"If we earned £250 in commission then we could offer £200 cashback.
"But in 2005, other dealers began offering much more money. Our sales dropped and we asked the networks what we should do.
"My account manager from 3 told us that we could compete by tightening up our terms and conditions.
"3 told us that a 40 per cent redemption model was possible if we split up our cashback into five stages, insisted on original documents and gave customers a short period to claim."
Attif says he has paid out around £4million in cashback to 30,000 customers. But he's avoided paying out another £6million.
One customer, Lorraine Felix, from Hornchurch, Essex, said: "I read everything very carefully and I made sure I sent my bills off in time."
But she hasn't been paid since August and is now owed more than £1,000 in unpaid cashback.
Attif admits there has been an "unacceptable delay" and blames withheld commission payments from suppliers.
He's run out of money, he can't pay 5,000 customers £600,000 and will have to go into administration.
We've also discovered that Phones2udirect.co.uk of Kent, another online cashback dealer, is set to be put into liquidation today.
Last year boss David Ellis refused to tell us why he'd been successfully sued 11 times by customers.
He's now lost at the small claims court 25 times this year alone and is shutting up shop.
In recent months we've seen a string of dealers - simply3g, phoneboxdirect, Mobile Connections, Click Mobile - go belly-up. Around 150,000 customers have lost £25million. Meanwhile, the big networks that either encouraged or allowed the dodgy deals happily profit from all the new customers they attracted.
A 3 spokesman said: "Cashback is an arrangement between the retailer and customer, not the network."
Consumer affairs minister Gareth Thomas said: "I thank the Mirror for continuing to highlight this issue.
"Thousands of people have lost money by signing these deals.
"It's right that Ofcom is talking to mobile operators and retailers and looking at ways to give consumers more protection.
"I would encourage anyone buying a phone to take the time to check the terms carefully and not make snap decisions based on a slick sales pitch."
The Independent Mobile Phone Dealers Association hopes to tackle the issue with a code of practice and a scheme to audit dealers.
For thousands of victims of the cashback scandal, it's way too late.

stoner_2

spoke to the bailiffs today and they referred me to the article above so I did a quick search and therefore have posted it for you. So yes, Mobile Outlet is going into liquidation, the whole thing is disgusting, no one accepts any blame, this should never be allowed to happen but this is the world we live in today.

If you've got as far as judgement in your favour and are thinking of applying for a warrant, it will cost you £55 and the chances are you will get nothing back as there are already over 100 in the queue. It's your call but based on the above, I'm now gutted I spent that extra £55 myself!

grayme-m

stoner wrote: »

Director Attif Ashraf admitted that around six in 10 customers failed to claim their cashback correctly.

That's balls, he's also said that he was told that would be the case by the providers but wasn't (see a few posts back) as well as in the same article.

If his admission was correct, and unless he is saying that he pays out some of those that claim incorrectly*, then there should be no issue.

However, for me he just keeps contradicting himself (which is nothing new for TMO).

*Maybe I am one of those six in ten...

grayme-m

stoner wrote: »

spoke to the bailiffs today and they referred me to the article above so I did a quick search and therefore have posted it for you. So yes, Mobile Outlet is going into liquidation, the whole thing is disgusting, no one accepts any blame, this should never be allowed to happen but this is the world we live in today.

If you've got as far as judgement in your favour and are thinking of applying for a warrant, it will cost you £55 and the chances are you will get nothing back as there are already over 100 in the queue. It's your call but based on the above, I'm now gutted I spent that extra £55 myself!

It says administration which means that the company will continue to trade and there is a (small) chance it will for the foreseeable future.

Liquidation means the company is having a fire sale.

However, given the quality of journalism these days, you can't be sure the Mirror has it right in the first place.

mcmanlyn

I love that the Mirror are trying to say that MO are being underhand & robbing people...and their only customer example is someone who didn't follow the T&C's!!!! How ridiculous!

How about using an example of one of the many people off here who did follow the T&C's but still haven't been paid - now that would have been good journalism!!!

grayme-m

Do those figures even stack up?

£4m to 30,000 people is an average cashback payment of £133.33 each.

There will be some that claim the first and don't get the second (for whatever reason...), but that seems low to me for an average.

stoner_2

grayme-m wrote: »

It says administration which means that the company will continue to trade and there is a (small) chance it will for the foreseeable future.

Liquidation means the company is having a fire sale.

However, given the quality of journalism these days, you can't be sure the Mirror has it right in the first place.

Hi Grayme - it was the bailiff who mentioned the word "liquidiation" or at least, I'm fairly sure she did. Regrds, stoner

grayme-m

stoner wrote: »

Hi Grayme - it was the bailiff who mentioned the word "liquidiation" or at least, I'm fairly sure she did. Regrds, stoner

A lot of people (many that should know better ) use the terms interchangeably, it's no wonder there is confusion when you get it second hand.

To further confuse, MOBILE MATTERS (UK) LTD on Companies House's website is still 'active', when companies go into Administration they are normally very quick to update the position...

The irony is that they are still trading on their website and offering 100% cashback deals.

I don't see they have gone into administration at all, otherwise the first thing any self respecting administrator would have done is write to all creditors (anyone got a letter?) and stop selling cashback deals!

KeithP

mcmanlyn wrote: »

I love that the Mirror are trying to say that MO are being underhand & robbing people...and their only customer example is someone who didn't follow the T&C's!!!! How ridiculous!

How about using an example of one of the many people off here who did follow the T&C's but still haven't been paid - now that would have been good journalism!!!

The example of Mr Peter Button appears to be not quite as you state.

After six months he tried to claim the first half of his cashback but was told he'd missed a 21-day deadline.

The only people who say he missed the deadline are TMO. But he probably did submit a valid claim within the time limits. A trick TMO have pulled many times.

spinner_2

The web site still seems to be offering new phones - surely this is trading while insolvent?