Scottish Power - when paying for your energy used isn't enough!

Simon7685

Nada666 wrote: »

And you're the little hitler (#11), not the customer service agents - they are trying to be fair to everyone by arranging for everyone to pay the same way and to follow the same procedures. You think you are better than the scummy sheep and deserve privileged treatment. You know if you stamp your feet and whine you can get your own way.

It is your choice. Pay the reasonable amount the computer wants you to pay (despite denials you have not disproved the computer's sums - and there are plenty of cases where mistakes are made, but not this one) or every time you enter a reading go through a foot-stamping whinge on the telephone. Most people have better things to do with their time.

Actually I am well on my way to proving my point. I have never said I am better than anyone else at all, the term "little hitlers" is an expression and relates to the fact that you can never get past the initial person on the other end of the phone, who to be fair generally tends to sit and read from a scripted way of dealing with customers.

The fact that they have now come up with an estimated usage in excess of 4000 units more than I have ever used, proves my point, they are wrong!
From October 2012 to July 2013 when taking into account the payment due on the 20th July leaves me around £8 in credit, which means my figures are correct.

I have used the amount of electric that I have paid for in the last 9 months.

My next 3 months usage based on last years usage for the same period will be £181. with a payment in August of £97.65 and another one in September, I will be £22 in credit after 12 months.

The electric I have used over the 12 months I have been with SP will be the amount I have paid for.

However they have factored in over 4000 extra units from goodness knows where, which accounts for why they want to increase the payments from £97.65 to £120.

They are the facts and I can prove it!

So Nada666 you can wind your neck in slinging insults at me thank you!

Simon7685

It is not about whining, stamping feet or anything else Nada666. It is about paying for what you have used and not something that is completely ficticious and suddenly deciding I will use 4000+ more units than has ever been used before, is ficticious.

You are too quick to judge people Nada666 and too keen to sling insults at people, as has been said to you before on this forum. My argument is based around facts and figures I can prove, until you can disprove them I suggest you shut up!

paulineb_2

Npower are exactly the same. I went from paying 45 quid and they upped my payments to 58 and then to 70 without telling me and Im now currently 20 pounds in credit but instead of refunding me they say they will use this credit for future bills.

Im a low user of gas and electricity so by the time it hits winter my account will be around 80 pounds in credit when I would really benefit from having my monthly DD put back down to about £38 which is what Im using at the moment, much of that being the standing charges.

Ive given up phoning customer services, they don't listen to anything you have to say.

Cardew

zagfles wrote: »

This doesn't make sense. If they review it every 3 months with the aim of bringing the balance to zero in 12 months time, then DDs are going to be changing by large amounts every 3 months, since they're aiming for a zero balance at different times of year every review!

.

You are correct, I phrased that badly. The 3 month review aims to correct any deviation from the forecast that set the level of my DD.

I went on my current SP tariff(fixed to Nov 2014) in Sept 2012. albeit I moved from another SP so they had a good history.

As stated above in May 2013, I had a detailed energy consumption table back to Sept 2011(20 months) and a detailed forecast to May 2014.

The 12 month forecast used exactly the same kWh consumption as the previous 12 months actual consumption. This, together with a small debit balance in May 2013 was the basis for my new DD level(an increase)

The Ofgem link stating 'Aniversary date' for zero balance does not seem to apply to my tariff(or yours) albeit the link does state ' Correct as at Nov 2011. Consumers should check with their supplier for their current policies'

I have trawled through the small print of my tariff details and can find nothing about the date of any review.

Under Payment Methods it states the usual blurb of spreading your bill over 12 payments reviewed every 3 months to check you are on the right track etc.

Under Part1 - Meanings it states:

Annual Reassessment the time(s) during the year at which we check the payments you have made against the cost of energy you have used to determine the balance on your account and assess whether your monthly direct debit payments
need to be increased or decreased:

Nowhere does it state when the review period starts, Spring or Aniversary. Although it would appear they use Spring, that doesn't seem to go against any of their T & Cs.

Incidentally I get a discount of £16.80pa for paying by Direct Debit. At current interest rates even if I had an average debit balance over the whole year of £1,000, the DD discount would more than compensate.

I also get £16.75pa discount for being on-line.

I can also elect to pay by Variable Direct Debit, Quarterly Direct Debit, Online by Direct Debit, Quarterly by Cash, Cheque or Postal Order.

Cardew

Simon7685 wrote: »

It is about paying for what you have used and not something that is completely ficticious and suddenly deciding I will use 4000+ more units than has ever been used before, is ficticious.

It is not 'completely ficticious.'

It is an estimate based on an independently audited algorithm on the Computer. Bear in mind they do not have your 12 months consumption history. In any case they review every 3 months and would revise your DD downwards as your consumption pattern emerged.

Even your figure is an estimate not 'facts', albeit based on your own records.

You state that 'they can stick the measly DD discount where they want'. Also:
'I am happy to pay for what I have used over the year but not an amount on top just to keep them money in the bank.'

In which case why don't you elect to pay by Variable Direct Debit, Quarterly Direct Debit, Online by Direct Debit, Quarterly by Cash, Cheque or Postal Order?

You can even get a 'prompt payment' discount.

It seems you just want to pick a fight with SP as you apparently did with BG and EDF on the same issue.

Simon7685

The bottom line here that has caused this whole situation is SP have based their forcasted usage for 12 months to be 4,294 units more than previously used, EVER!

My average split over the course of a year is 70% of use is at night and 30% is daytime. We have storage heaters that heat solely through the Economy 7 period as does the hot water.

So breaking down the 4294 using my annual percentage split;
1288 would be daytime - 30%
3006 would be night - 70%

Add to that normal annual usage;
4075 Day
9481 Night

Totals;
5363 Day
12487 Night

Using my spreadsheet to calculate the annual cost of that is;

£1507.14 or £125.59 per month

They want me to pay according to the forecast on their website today;

£124.34 per month totaling £1492.08

As I have had to estimate how they have split the extra units, (which I feel I have done in a fair manner). I think my point is well and truly proven!

They want me to pay a hyper inflated usage, that I do not believe they can substantiate. If that hyper inflated usage is taken out of the equation, you go back to normal annual usage of £1172 which over 12 months works out to £97.65 a month.

No "ifs", no "buts", no "why's" or "wherefore's" just plain hard facts!

If however SP can explain to me why during the next 12 months I will use 4294 units more than I have ever used over the 9 years I have lived here, I will gladly pay the extra. Until then they can stick it!

Incidentally 4294 units is an increase of just under 32%

They cannot justify it by price rises either as I am on a fixed deal to November 2014.

My point well and truly proven, my payments are correct, I rest my case and this little lot will be winging its way to their complaints department for an explanation.

Simon7685

If they want me to pay 32% more than I ever have, they have to be able to substantiate it. I have offered them complete access to my records for the last 9 years which they have declined. I can prove what I say and yes I have included an estimation in my calculations for a 3 month period from now until mid October, however that is based on actual previous usage for the same period, so relatively speaking is going to be pretty accurate.

I am not trying to pick a fight with anyone, I merely expect to pay for what I use and not their hyper inflated estimations.

If come October I am proven right that my usage calculates out to £97.65 a month, then they cannot expect me to pay anymore. After all they will have a full 12 month period to work on.

Variable monthly DD's are all well and good but not when you work on a tight budget, a £20 a month hike is a lot of money to me. Even more so when it is to cover something I am not going to spend.

Simon7685

Also don't forget I have advised them in writing that IF I owe anything come October, I will gladly pay it in full. I even offered to give them card details to debit any owing amount to because I know my usage, I know what my bills should be and I know what I need to pay to cover it.

Nada666

zagfles wrote: »

Not according to Ofgem http://www.ofgem.gov.uk/media/factsheets/documents1/directdebitleaflet.pdf

SP are supposed to use anniversary date. If this is wrong perhaps they should take it up with Ofgem.

No, that is dated November 2011. On that very table "spring annual review date" is acknowledged as an option. Scottish Power are free to adopt this system if they like. Nowhere does your leaflet say that that is not permitted. The table explicitly includes the footnote "Correct as at Nov 2011. Consumers should check with their supplier for their current policies."

zagfles

Cardew wrote: »

You are correct, I phrased that badly. The 3 month review aims to correct any deviation from the forecast that set the level of my DD.

The forecast that set my initial level of DD was the forecast when I joined, in November.

I went on my current SP tariff(fixed to Nov 2014) in Sept 2012. albeit I moved from another SP so they had a good history.

As stated above in May 2013, I had a detailed energy consumption table back to Sept 2011(20 months) and a detailed forecast to May 2014.

The 12 month forecast used exactly the same kWh consumption as the previous 12 months actual consumption. This, together with a small debit balance in May 2013 was the basis for my new DD level(an increase)

The Ofgem link stating 'Aniversary date' for zero balance does not seem to apply to my tariff(or yours) albeit the link does state ' Correct as at Nov 2011. Consumers should check with their supplier for their current policies'

I have trawled through the small print of my tariff details and can find nothing about the date of any review.

Exactly, so there's nothing to contradict the Ofgem page. I have no problem with SP having a spring annual review for their DD scheme, as long as they admit it, and that they apply it when customers first join instead of letting them pay a misleading low figure based on annual estimated usage divided by 12, as they did with me.

If the review date is the spring, and people join them in autumn, they clearly need to pay considerably more than annual usage/12 for the first 6 months to achieve a zero spring balance, don't they?

Under Payment Methods it states the usual blurb of spreading your bill over 12 payments reviewed every 3 months to check you are on the right track etc.

Under Part1 - Meanings it states:



Nowhere does it state when the review period starts, Spring or Aniversary. Although it would appear they use Spring, that doesn't seem to go against any of their T & Cs.

So why can't they just be upfront with customers about the date they use? I don't believe they have a spring annual review anyway, my recent recalculation was based on the next 12 months, not the next 9.

Incidentally I get a discount of £16.80pa for paying by Direct Debit. At current interest rates even if I had an average debit balance over the whole year of £1,000, the DD discount would more than compensate.

I also get £16.75pa discount for being on-line.

I can also elect to pay by Variable Direct Debit, Quarterly Direct Debit, Online by Direct Debit, Quarterly by Cash, Cheque or Postal Order.

Yes, but so what? This isn't about the value of the DD discount, it's about being upfront with customers about how the calculation is done. Is that too much to ask?