Scottish Power - when paying for your energy used isn't enough!

Simon7685

Zagfles posted;

Weird! A £5 one off payment and they chop £67 per month off the DD? How does that make any sort of sense?

I tried that option but it says it's not available! I wanted to make a £10 one off payment to reduce my DD to zero :rotfl:

It really makes you wonder what the reasoning is behind such a strange scheme!

I was merely giving my opinion on that.

zagfles

Cardew wrote: »

I not sure they do aim for a zero Spring balance in the first year when a customer joins in Autumn. I had a large debit balance in April, my DD payment went in 01 May and I had a debit balance(£69) on 04 May which was added to my 05/13 to 05/14 estimate.

What do they aim for then? In the case of a customer who joins in November 2012, it is clearly non-sensical to aim for a zero November 2013 balance, if they're then going to review it in April 2013 and aim for a zero April 2014 balance!

What's the point of initially aiming for a zero Nov 2013 balance? Or it just a ploy to show initial lower DD payments than required to encourage customers to switch?

However IF they use a Spring Review for your account, they can adjust in the forthcoming 3 month reviews! Also they can, like my account, Review in Spring and carry forward a debit balance.

Why would they do that if they've just used a calculation based on a zero July balance? I reckon they won't worry about a review till next spring...when I'll whinge again and postpone it 3 months

This has been discussed before and this thread includes a SP Rep's post:

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/57253183#Comment_57253183

Which doesn't answer as to when in the year the review is done.

Simon7685

So in simplistic terms even though SP do not have the benefit of my usage figures. If on the 20th of July, when July's DD goes onto my account I do not owe them anything. They or you cannot say I have not paid for the energy I have used in the lst 9 months.
That is clear surely?
So if I start to pay £120 a month as my previous 9 months have been proven to average out to £97.65 I am going to pay more for the 3 months left to my anniversary 12 month point.

I understand that in SP's world they would like me to have an anniversary date in April, after the most expensive time of the year and that they will do there utmost to try and make sure that come April I owe them nothing by increasing my payments but that is not a fair way to do it. This I think is the whole point but it is not going to happen with me. I will not overpay now to suit what they want. If they had told me from the beginning in crystal clear language that this was how they wanted to work, I would never have switched to them but the simple fact is they didn't.

They asked me for my previous 12 months usage figures, they also confirmed it with BG. They then calculated that to cover my use for the first year I needed to pay £97.65.

At the end of those 12 months I will have paid for what I have used. That is fair and how it should be.

If they now want to change things and want me to pay more because their multi million pound system thinks I should, then they need to substantiate their figures. If they can do that, I will increase my payments.

Also let us not forget that this multi million pound system is the same one that decided what I should pay when I joined. So if it now says I will use over 4000 units more, then perhaps they need a new one because it obviously doesn't work too well.........

SwanJon

You are winding yourself up, and conflating two issues.

1) Spring balance - which may or may not have happened in your case, but it gives you a stick to beat SP with so you won't let it drop.

2) SP's estimation of your future use is too high, reflecting in their advised DD amount. You've managed to smack down the unworthy on the phone to get your way, but again, won't let it drop. Keep giving them regular readings and their estimates will get better.

Simon7685

Oh and just to add......

The bill in front of me now generated yesterday the 15th of July is clearly entitled;

"Your Annual Electricity Statement"

That would be a 9 month year then? I always thought annual meant 12 months!

SwanJon

Simon7685 wrote: »

I always thought annual meant 12 months!

No, annual means once a year

Cardew

Simon7685 wrote: »

I have more than answered the point.

You haven't answered any point. Why not pay by another method?

It is up to SP to now come to me and explain how on earth they can justify me using over 4000 units more than I have ever used before. Just because they do not have a usage history, that does not make it right!

Of course not having your usage history is a valid reason for them using an estimate that that doesn't agree with your estimate.

Do you not understand independantly audited algorithm on their computer.


I do not care what their computer says the simple facts are they are wrong, they cannot justify over 4000 units more in consumption.

The simple facts are they can - see above about an algorithm

At the end of the day come October I will be proven right when I do not owe them anything at the end of my first year.

So!

I cannot opt out of a monthly direct debit without it costing me £30, so unless I want to further increase their profits, I have to go with monthly DD.

Where do you get that information? You can elect to pay by the methods I outlined. The £30 is if you leave(cancel) the tariff

However if it gets to a point where they refuse to reduce the DD even after complaining I will cancel and force them to take me to court for the £30. No court in this land will uphold their case, when I can put my accurate facts on the table and I am certain of that.

Agreed I doubt if a court would order you to pay the £30. Cancelling would be cutting off nose etc etc as you are on by far the cheapest tariff available.

You currently are not putting down 'facts' - you are using YOUR estimate of future consumption.

You seem to think that a computer algorithm should be written just for yourself, using your estimates.

I am on the same tariff, also Economy 7 but use 25% off-peak instead of your 70% and the UK average of 55%.

Because of your understandable dislike of the Utility companies, you just seem to want a fight, as you did with BG and EDF.

So please answer, why not pay by another method which will solve all your objections.

DirectDebacle

Hi Cardew,

Thanks for the response and the link. I cannot see from the info SP provide on how their DD works that there is any evidence of a spring balance policy. Neither do they categorically state there isn't one.

However their explanation of their DD scheme is one of a regular fixed DD as defined by Ofgem, Standard Licence Condition 27.13-16 accessed from here.

They do say in their video that they will conduct an annual review of the DD at the end of the payment year. The payment year and its annual review must be calculated from the date of the account opening. As they do not define it as being anything other than this then the common usage and commonsense interpretation has to be taken.

A review, quarterly or otherwise is simply that and intended to ensure the DD is kept at an appropriate level. It has no bearing on the anniversary date of the account or annual review date which will be usually the same date and in the main, for balancing purposes.

SP have a duty to adjust the DD if necessary and are required to do so by the SLC. They are also required to provide the reasons why any adjustment is made and upon what basis.

Just because SP do not have evidence of usage history for the OP themselves does not mean no such evidence exists. Neither does it relieve them of the responsibility to ensure that any estimated usage is based upon the best information available. The OP has records of previous usage and has offered to furnish SP with them. If SP are not prepared to accept this information or to verify it they are in no position to dispute it.

In respect of the DD demand by SP I remain of the opinion that the OP is entitled to challenge it.

Simon7685

I have already answered that........

I cannot pay by another means without cancelling the contract terms of the tariff, which will cost me £30 and they will then move me over to their standard tariff which will cost more. Besides that a monthly DD is suitable to my budget and income. That however does not mean I should pay more than is needed to cover my use!

I do not expect their computer to be written off because I don't agree with it at all. I just expect any company to be realistic with what they are asking someone to pay.

For you to say that it is acceptable for them to estimate an annual usage of over 4000 units more, when they have 9 months usage history to go on the absolutely ridiculous.

Next week when you go to Tesco's why don't you pay £50 more for your trolley because their computer thinks you should?

Again I do not know how to make it any simpler to understand........

October to July used £878.85

October to July 20th (4 days time) paid £878.85

Therefore based on that a 10 year old could tell you that to be expected to pay £1440 over the next 12 months does not add up!

Again

Used £878.85 in 9 months, paid £878.85 in 9 months

878.85 / 9 x 12 = £1171.80
but wait a minute.....
instead pay £1440 because the computer says so.

Simon7685

:jHooray:j

"They do say in their video that they will conduct an annual review of the DD at the end of the payment year. The payment year and its annual review must be calculated from the date of the account opening. As they do not define it as being anything other than this then the common usage and commonsense interpretation has to be taken."

Therefore my annual review is 16 October when they should look at what I have used and forecast the next 12 months usage.

Not decide 9 months into a year that my next 12 months usage will be 4293 units more than the previous year! Especially when the 9 months previous payments have covered the the cost of the energy used.

Thanks Directdebacle:T