How can any parent do this?

Valli

Thing is, having a child doesn't turn people into perfect parents.

Lou67

ThumbRemote wrote: »

Please clarify for me. On what evidence do you base your claim that it is "usually from THAT kind of family"?

Or by "THAT" do you simply mean "the kind of family that abuses children"?

You either don't read peoples posts properly, or you are just being pedantic. I am guessing, a bit of both.

If you wish to know what I mean by THAT kind of family; simply refer back to my post number 18. I state quite clearly what kind of family I mean...

http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showpost.php?p=62068373&postcount=18

And the EVIDENCE is here there and everywhere, in many sink estate families, and in the newspapers regularly.

But I think you know that, just like you know EXACTLY what I meant when I said THAT kind of family. Well you SHOULD have known what I meant considering I stated it clearly in my post No 18.

I am now putting you on ignore, because while I have no problem with debating, I can't be doing with people constantly baiting and being pedantic for the sake of an argument, because somebody has dared say something they 'don't like.' (Which is what you are doing.) And I literally cannot be bothered to continue to repeat myself to someone who is simply spoiling for a forum spat.

ThumbRemote

Lou67 wrote: »

And the EVIDENCE is here there and everywhere, in many sink estate families, and in the newspapers regularly.

To be honest, my main question was where you'd got the evidence from. Given your text quoted above, it appears you have no basis in fact for your assertion.

The issue I have with you stereotyping is that it creates a link in peoples minds, when actually there's no basis in fact for that link. So, to refer back to your original post:

It's always the same kind of people that treat their kids like this too The kind that have pitbulls that attack their own grandchildren and call their kids dumb names like Shantelle, and Xander, and Tyler and Ashleeeigh, in a world where it's not uncommon for a woman to become a granny at 35 or
younger.

The kind of family that make peoples lives a misery with
their chavvy barbeques and kids screaming in the garden bouncing up and down on their trampolines, while their (19 y.o.) mum is on the laptop playing internet bingo with Jeremy Kyle on the telly.

Here you've set up a 'straw man'. You've created a picture of the worst of the worst, and in doing so you've linked together a whole host of individual behaviours that, in some cases, are fine in themselves. There is nothing wrong with playing internet bingo, for example, but you've linked it with pitbull owners. And in what way is a 'chavvy' barbeque worse than a middle class barbeque? All told, you've generated a stereotype.

I'm talking about sink-estate underclasses:

Now, having created your picture, you leap to widen it to sink estate underclasses. Essentially you draw the rest of the people who live in economically poor estates into the picture you created initially. This may not have been your intention, but it's the effect.

the badly treated, badly neglected children almost ALWAYS come from this kind of family, because many of them are not having children because they want them. Ergo; they have no CLUE how to look after them, nor do they actually want to.

And now another leap of logic. Having created your fake sink estate picture, you make four unsubstantiated claims:
1. badly treated, badly neglected children almost ALWAYS come from this kind of family
2. many of them are not having children because they want them
3. have no CLUE how to look after them
4. nor do they actually want to

I've asked you to provide evidence for point 1, which you have failed to do. On point 3 I will fully admit there is bad parenting all round the country, though I would suggest it is both made worse and made more noticeable by the effects of poverty.

I think your points 2 and 4 are downright wrong. The vast majority of people living in deprived areas love their children and want to do the best for them. Poor parenting may not be deliberate.

sweetstudent

Instead of starting a new thread I thought that I would simply continue this one....

Again we have another disturbing case of another innocent child being murdered by the people who are supposed to be the parents. Interestingly enough the grandmother of Daniel Pelka has stated "that his mother shouldn't bear the brunt of his death" and "that she is really a normal girl" (The Metro, 02/08/13 pg4) - what kind of person who is "normal" actually sits back and abuses her own child and even let them be abused? How deluded is this women?

Even Daniels siblings tried to hide food for him to eat

The answer is no normal person would allow that to happen to another person let alone a child - I would not allow a animal to be treated in that way.

I only hope that the judge who is going to sentence this evil couple gives them life without parole as they are clearly too dangerous to be let back out into society.

Unfortunately I guess that if they are sentenced to life without parole it will be deemed to be against there human rights - even though they murdered a innocent child - which apparently is less important than the victims right to a happy and safe upbringing.

On the plus side I guess every prisoner will be wanting to make these scumbags very welcome in prison when they arrive this afternoon/evening

I know that there have been failing within the social services/school system but the blame cannot be passed over to third parties. The majority of the blame has to lie with the so called mother and step-father

Yes these failings cannot be allowed to happen again and again, how many more children have to be murdered before there is a more robust system in place to protect any potential victim from these abhorrent crimes?

We need to be more like America and hand out real sentences like the one Ariel Castro has been given (life + 1000 years). :T

ThumbRemote

sweetstudent wrote: »

Yes these failings cannot be allowed to happen again and again, how many more children have to be murdered before there is a more robust system in place to protect any potential victim from these abhorrent crimes?

No system is ever going to completely prevent things like this happening.

Pollycat

I just wonder how many more children are going to die before the "lessons that will be learned" are actually learned.

springdreams

This is truly horrifying :mad:

The question I ask is where was Daniel's father?? The boy did not loose so much weight in a week or two. His father must have had visitation rights, and must have noticed that his son was unnaturally thin and covered in so many bruises. Why did he not step in?? The same is true of Peter Connolly's father ... Why are these men turning blind eyes to the suffering of their children?

They go on television and talk to magazines and newspapers saying how much they loved their sons, but seem to have done nothing when they had the opportunity.

cherie1122

Daniel's father lives abroad (Poland, I believe)

He was on TV the other evening saying that he would have taken Daniel to live with him if he had known the kind of life he was living.

So sad! Poor Daniel weighed less than two stone when he died.

bosseyed

These stories are horrifying. They're affecting when you don't have children, but when you do its just inconceivable in a way thats hard to clarify. Every time I read about a child who lived a life of misery and violence at the hands of those who were supposed to protect and cherish them I'm filled with such an overwhelming sadness. Its not even anger at the parents, its just an outpouring of useless directionless grief for the child involved, the thought of them dying alone without truly knowing unconditional love just breaks my heart.

I was reading the latest story about Daniel and I had to stop and go upstairs and peek in at my kids asleep in their beds just to see them. There they were in their tidy rooms surrounded by toys and teddy bears both sleeping peacefully. My kids are the centre of my world, even when they're being annoying little bug*ers. Their needs are so simple, their requirements for a happy life so easy to achieve, their world one of excitement and discovery no matter how mundane the task is to me; their mother and I do our best to fill it with hugs and laughter and songs and silly happy stuff and it breaks my heart that these children are betrayed by the adults who are supposed to provide them with that instead giving pain and misery and neglect and death to one too young to have experienced anything better.

Sad

Pollycat

It's 13 years since Victoria Climbie was murdered.

And here we are again.
Another child failed by 'the system'.