Fined For Throwing Apple Core

JoanneJ

Cannot find any other reference to this via the Search so apologies if already covered [ref to thread if possible, please].

My neice has received a letter from LA saying one of their officers saw the driver of her car throwing an "apple core" from the vehicle whilst driving on a dual carriageway.

My neice knows she did this but she considered as the item was only a core, was biodegradable and was aimed at the grassed central lane that it would just decompose and not be a littering offence; since she never litters, nor has ever done.

The fine of £75 that seems set to be levied seems very severe. Surely the letter serving as a first caution would have totally altered her behaviour but she is not given that opportunity, and her local councillor says the fine can be appealed against but does not hold much hope of quashing.

It seems that the officer's word against ANYONE else is ALWAYS taken, without any corroborative evidence [photos etc] needed to be presented.

Is this fair?

Any advice appreciated.

liney

Short of carrying a camera and taking photgraphs at an extreamlry apt moment (ie the second a speeding car shed an apple core) i don't think a the police officer can really provide evidence as such in this kind of case.

As she admits she committed the offence though surely that point is moot.

asea

but she admitted that she did it - so the officer was telling the truth!! i think she should pay up! i've been hit by motorists throwing things from their windows whilst out cycling (which incidentally landed me in hospital & made another cyclist behind me crash as well!), it's a really dangerous thing to do - what's wrong with waiting till you get home or get to a bin? you can't say she never litters or has never done when she's admitted throwing an apple core out of the window, why wouldn't biodegradable items be considered as litter unless you were putting them in a compost heap?

MercilessKiller

asea wrote: »

but she admitted that she did it - so the officer was telling the truth!! i think she should pay up! i've been hit by motorists throwing things from their windows whilst out cycling (which incidentally landed me in hospital & made another cyclist behind me crash as well!), it's a really dangerous thing to do - what's wrong with waiting till you get home or get to a bin? you can't say she never litters or has never done when she's admitted throwing an apple core out of the window, why wouldn't biodegradable items be considered as litter unless you were putting them in a compost heap?

I'm young and personally would litter apple cores due to being told they are biodegradable in school!

(i'm not that young so I wouldnt do it anymore nenessairy)
The point I'm trying to make, is that when someone is told something is biodegradable then its implied that nature takes care of it and leaving the apple core to nature is helping, not damaging the environment This is the impression forced upon younger people these days.

I think throwing it from the car windows is the only reason there is a £75 fine. If its due to "litter" rather than "throwing item from car", then I would personally argue it, and if I lose, go crazy at my parents for telling me those things

Lita_Ford

What would you say if i chucked my half eaten food at your garden.

JoanneJ

"i've been hit by motorists throwing things from their windows whilst out cycling "

Please inform us how much the person was fined for this dangerous action?

"why wouldn't biodegradable items be considered as litter unless you were putting them in a compost heap?"

This was ONE thin apple core set onto a long grassed area, without anyone at risk of being hit since there was no other traffic [my neice CAN use her rear view mirror]. It was such a one off occurence by her that she can clearly recall the date/place/time BUT thought her approach was like recycling a small piece of biodegradable waste matter which would have been out of view of anything but the insects/birds/bacteria which would feast upon it in minutes/hours.

There were a number of yellow coated workmen on the opposite bank and presumably it was one of these who decided to note the car registration number, and then find time to cross the road to the verge and hunt for the "core". Nice to have the time to engage in such vital crime prevention.

This was NOT a police officer; the letter refers to a LA 'officer'. Is every LA worker an OFFICER then?

The fine is excessive and the letter is provable as a deterrant. THAT is the "unfair" aspect of this particular incident.

Please give examples of the many ILLEGAL compost sites that anyone has observed? I have never seen ANY but HAVE seen the odd discarded peeling near tree roots, in long grass, amongst fallen leaves. Oh....and have seen LOTS OF DOG EXCREMENT despite clear warning signs given on every other lamp-post.

I have NEVER seen a single piece of warning about discarding small apple cores. Please post proof that such campaigns warning of the dangers and penalties liable for apple core discarding actually exist.

As I type I can see two drivers using mobile phones, hear an illegal mini-moto bike running along the back alley and have just seen a scrambling bike rider proceed up and down my street WITHOUT A HELMET. All these incidents have previously been reported to the local police and yet STILL occur without any apparent curbing of the behaviour.

My neice, in comparison, is being GROSSLY UNFAIRLY PENALISED.

MercilessKiller

Lita_Ford wrote: »

What would you say if i chucked my half eaten food at your garden.

Long Grassed council owned land (by the sounds of things) isn't someones garden. At least I hope not at the side of a dual carriageway.

If the land has nothing on it except nature growing, and the apple core is biodegradable and NONE harmful to the envrionment, I dont think the penalty should be for litter.

I agree to the dangers of throwing from a car, however I dont agree to the fine of littering an apple core onto un-maintained grassland.

snu

Just a thought.
Perhaps its not the actual "throwing the core out the window" that has gotten them fired out, i think it's what it implys.
It would imply that your niece was eating whilst driving?
If she wasn't eating, where did the apple core come from?
If it was from earlier and she has eaten it before she has began driving, why did she not dispose of it then?
"When it comes to things like eating, smoking, applying make-up, map reading and tuning in the car stereo, they are not against the law but drivers can be charged with careless driving or not being in proper control of their vehicle."
It might be that the charge was for being careless?

geo555

A £75 fine for littering is excessive, especially when the scumbag who burgled my house, who when eventually got caught asked for 40+ other offences to be taken into consideration, received a caution.

sarahg1969

Presumably, she's received a fixed penalty notice, as the LA is not authorised to issue "fines" (under the Bill of Rights Act); only the Courts are.

She doesn't have to accept it, if she feels very strongly about it. She could always ask for the matter to be dealt with at Court. Can they produce the evidence? I suspect not.

For what it's worth, to me, apple cores don't seem much of a problem (I'm not sure how many cyclists get hit every year by thrown apples cores, but I'd have thought that they wouldn't be THAT major a problem). I know that one of the "reasons" is that they can attract vermin. Funny how that's not stopped many local authorities moving to fortnightly bin collections, isn't it?

maninthestreet

From what we have been told, the fine was for littering, not for any motoring offence. The fine was not issued by a police officer, but by a local authority officer/warden. You can contest the fine, but if you lose you might well end up with a bigger fine, and even a criminal record - remember the recent case of the man who got a criminal record for contesting a fine over a piece of paper in recycling bin only meant for plastics? This is the Tony Blair's legacy to the country - he's created a 'fine' country.