Ex wife lied to where she has taken kids abroad. Where do i stand?

paulineb_2

marisco wrote: »

Some people find it hard to trust easily. Especially when they have placed a lot of trust in someone in the past and had that thrown back in their face. These recent lies have involved the OPs children and he has been left worried sick about their whereabouts and welfare. For a split moment today his exs lies left him fearful of whether his children had been caught up in an explosion at Disney. The kind of panic no parent should have to go through. All so avoidable if no lies has been told. Not easy to simply let go and move on from.

On the other hand, we dont actually know that the kids didnt go to Orlando at all. The OP doesnt know, hes just assumed that they went to Vegas and stayed in Vegas the whole time, he doesnt actually know thats the case. Its the lack of communication since they got to America thats the issue.
And to be fair, we dont actually know the reasons why the marriage broke down. On both sides. There could have been trust issues on either side, the point is we dont know.

And my comment I made about having to let go, was in particular reference to bringing up the last year of their relationship. I meant let go of that. I didnt mean he hadnt to worry or bother about this situation.

Sometimes people make mistakes. Big clangers of mistakes.
But if the ex wife couldnt tell him where she was going and that she was getting married, theres obviously something fundamentally wrong. And I think thats something that they both need to deal with on their return, why she felt she couldnt say, rather than just getting angry because she didnt.

And having read back the thread, I may be wrong and someone can correct me if I am, but it looks like unless a court was involved that she didnt legally need to tell him where they were going at all.

And to get it into perspective, does the OP know every single last movement of his children when they are at home in the UK? From the minute they get up in the morning until they go to bed, including if they ever have a holiday in the UK or stay over with a friend? I would absolutely bet that he doesnt.

And Im not trying to make light of any concerns that he has about his children. But I actually think that the communication or lack of it between them is the biggest issue that needs to be resolved.

And if the OP gets very upset on her return, its not going to move anything forward in a productive manner. If the OP has no concerns that the mum is a good mum and that these kids would be well looked after for the duration of the holiday, the main thing that needs to be discussed is that it would be more than reasonable to update your facebook status to say landed when you arrive or drop an email to say we arrived ok.

And the thing is, the woman has updated her facebook since they got there. He knows the kids arrived safely. He knows they are ok.

And the facebook page gives the location of the town they are in. I suggested pages ago that he directly message the mum on facebook just to ask if all was ok. She also seems to have family and friends with them, it really doesnt look as if anything untoward is going to happen to the kids on this holiday.

Ive just read about the disneyland explosion, it involved two water bottles filled with dry ice. People were evacuated as a precaution, no one was injured and some people said that they had ringing in their ears. Thankfully it wasnt worse but I think the OP can be assured that even if the kids were in the area, no one was hurt.

FBaby

I have only read the first 5 pages and last so sorry if repeating but as a pwc who regularly takes my children abroad I have never ever been asked to show consent from father to take them out of the county, just confirmation that they are my children (as they have their father's surname). That's because it is not illegal to do so. it is also not a legal requirement to inform the other parent of where the children are. The recourse one had if to go to court to request that the children are brought back to England of a case of kidnaping is made. This is not the case here. You could last tons of money to hope that a judge would agree that your ex is legally obliged to provide you with contact details but unless you can show they were at risk you are most likely wasting your time and money.

As for her lying, for one you don't know yet for sure that its the case and for two you are saying NOW that you wouldn't have prevented the children from going but might heave felt differently before. Why would she possibly lie to the extent you are making just for the sake of it? She clearly had concerns that you would prevent it righty or wrongly and the fact she felt this way its something to reflect on maybe? Trust goes both ways. She clearly doesn't trust you why is that?

I do hope you can learn from this rather than use out as an excuse to make things even more complicated as I do feel for you. I too would hate not knowing my children are or be able to contact them but then my ex and I would never have a reason to lie about it.

pesky85

Thanks for coming back on to the thread, Moonwax. Forums such as this will always have posters that would rather debate than offer advice (which is what you asked for in your OP). Most of us are very sympathetic to what you are having to go through!

I agree that the best thing to do now would be to keep your cool when they return. Show the kids that you can have a civil respectful relationship with their mum (even if it is one sided - that way you won't be painted to be the bad guy!).

I hope the children had a good time anyway, keep us updated.

mumps

balletshoes wrote: »

correct paperwork for the airline means a valid travel document like a passport or ID card, and the relevant visa if appropriate (my OH isn't British and we go through this regularly when we all fly together as a family).

I thought it related to people being refused entry at the other end, if the country you are going to won't accept you through immigration because they are concerned about the child and airline had to return you to UK wouldn't that cause problems for the airline?

peachyprice

mumps wrote: »

I thought it related to people being refused entry at the other end, if the country you are going to won't accept you through immigration because they are concerned about the child and airline had to return you to UK wouldn't that cause problems for the airline?

The document is UK law, not international, while they could prevent you leaving the UK without it I doubt it would be grounds to refuse entry unless elsewhere unless a specific requirement of that country too.

tattycath

FBaby wrote: »

I have only read the first 5 pages and last so sorry if repeating but as a pwc who regularly takes my children abroad I have never ever been asked to show consent from father to take them out of the county, just confirmation that they are my children (as they have their father's surname). That's because it is not illegal to do so. it is also not a legal requirement to inform the other parent of where the children are. The recourse one had if to go to court to request that the children are brought back to England of a case of kidnaping is made. This is not the case here. You could last tons of money to hope that a judge would agree that your ex is legally obliged to provide you with contact details but unless you can show they were at risk you are most likely wasting your time and money.

As for her lying, for one you don't know yet for sure that its the case and for two you are saying NOW that you wouldn't have prevented the children from going but might heave felt differently before. Why would she possibly lie to the extent you are making just for the sake of it? She clearly had concerns that you would prevent it righty or wrongly and the fact she felt this way its something to reflect on maybe? Trust goes both ways. She clearly doesn't trust you why is that?

I do hope you can learn from this rather than use out as an excuse to make things even more complicated as I do feel for you. I too would hate not knowing my children are or be able to contact them but then my ex and I would never have a reason to lie about it.

On the other hand the mother could have lied just so she is in control-I have seen this done firsthand. Not because the father would prevent anything but just because 'she could'.
So it may be that she is playing games with him and messing with his head.
In my experience some parents from broken families do all sorts of things for no apparent reason.
I've never done that but unfortunately some do. I openly encouraged my kids to maintain a relationship with their father and his side of the family.
Hope you soon get it sorted OP.

FBaby

There are a quite a few countries who take the 'written consent' rule far more seriously than the UK appears to do.

The problem is how could they possibly police this? In my case for instance, dad doesn't have parental responsibility as we were not married and children born before 12/03. So if they asked for the consent, all I would need to say is 'sorry but not required, father doesn't have parental responsibility', then what? How would they check that?

This is why the onus is on the concerned parent. If they are concerned, either for the security of the child, or in case the child was being kidnapped (the only two valid reasons), then the parent can apply to court to prevent the child from being taken out of the country. Immigration do carry out checks as to whether a formal order has been put in place, but that is all they are concerned about and rightly so. Personal issues of trust is thankfully not one for them to be dealing with.

unholyangel

marisco wrote: »

I completely disagree with this advice. The OP has to maintain contact with his ex as far as working with her to raise their children is concerned. Why would a grown man want to handle his necessary interaction with a grown woman as if she were a child seeking attention and going along with her stupid behaviour and lies. Good grief ignore bad behaviour and praise good, what tosh. Who in their right minds would be prepared to play those silly games. Doesn't it also send a very confusing message to his children if daddy is treating mummy as if she is their age.

Yes because giving her a talking to isnt treating her like a child at all, is it? As for a load of tosh....no dear, 5 years of psychology. If they do something for attention (whether adult or child) the best response is no response. I'm sure the OP also had "what kind of message does it send to the kids" thoughts when saying he doesnt care if his ex gets hit by a bus or when he was talking about getting the police involved.

If she has lied, she has done it for a reason. The reason may not be a logical one, but there will be a reason. I have a feeling the OP has given her several "talkings to" over the years, so sometimes you need to think outside the box. If she's doing it to try and get a rise out of him, she'll sadly fail if he completely ignores it. Giving her the reaction she was expecting (even if its for a different reason) just validates lying in her mind. If she did do it for attention, she will likely tell him the truth when he fails to react in order to provoke a reaction.


As someone else said, just because shes bad at being part of "team parent" doesnt mean the children are in harms way.

RuthnJasper

I can understand why Moonwax is annoyed. I'm not a parent myself - but if I was, and the children were still quite young - I would not be happy for them to visit Las Vegas. I'm no prude and I'd love to have fun in Vegas myself; but I wouldn't want my small children exposed to the trashy world of gambling, easy money and human excess.

Also, if my children had been chattering excitedly for weeks about visiting the Orlando Disney Park and Harry Potter World (wouldn't mind spending a couple of days in that one myself ) and there was a chance that this opportunity was going to be taken away from them at the last minute I'd be ever so concerned about their disappointment.

That said, the mother's behaviour does seem a bit odd. I suppose nothing can be known until she returns and the whole situation is explained.

I hope Moonwax lets us know what happened and that the children are back safe and well.

duchy

It does seems strange that neither of the children have responded to the messages their father has sent ..........or indeed that if the bride travelled out with friends and family that there is not one person in the party (or even family at home like ex-in laws) the OP has been able to contact to gain reassurance about the children.

I think there is a lot more to this family dynamic than the OP is letting on