Pcn - out of trading hours

dippy149

Thanks very much....appreciate your advice very much

dippy149

Update the store in question does not wish the public to be charged to park out of hours and are in fact happy for people to do so. They also explained that it was only because the car in question was parked two minutes before the store shut that a ticket was issued. Fighting spirit has been fuelled...

dippy149

The popla code has been received and would appreciate a bit of help completing the appeal to them please??

Coupon-mad

Start looking on the forum to learn about what wins at POPLA. Here a just a few examples (scroll to the actual draft POPLA appeal in each case):

http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?...st=20&start=20

http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?...=post&id=21565

http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showtopic=78026

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/4610773

http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showtopic=79545&st=0&gopid=826768

And some known POPLA decisions summarised, some amusing wins recently:

http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/...4488337&page=2

As you can see it's not a matter of sending any old soft appeal about 'what happened' or complaining that 'it's excessive'; anything like that = would lose. It's a good game to find the legal or BPA breach point that will trip up your PPC - use strong legal challenge points you will see used on those threads (all started by inexperienced newbies who have learned quickly how to defeat the scammers).

It's about challenging the very basis of the fake PCN and the status of the company to even issue it. You can do this just by copy/pasting stuff you read on other threads or find in the BPA Code of Practice, then showing us your draft you come up with, please, to make sure you've included everything. Please do a little more reading and let's see your draft POPLA appeal so we can help further.

HTH

dippy149

First draft of appeal as follows:

Popla Ref: xxxxxxxxxx

ALDI xxxxxxx Car Park
PCN No. xxxxxx/xxxxxx
REG No. xxxx xxx

On 18th May 2013 Parking Eye Car Park Management issued a parking charge notice as the above vehicle was allegedly recorded on Automatic Number Plate Recognition Technology as having stayed in the above stated car park for over one and half hours, after trading hours of above stated supermarket, had ceased.

The appeal enclosed within this letter is as follows:

1. The landowner/occupier of above stated supermarket has confirmed that no charges are to be made to users of the said car park out of trading hours. It is not believed however that Parking Eye have demonstrated propriety interest in the land as they have no legal possession. This point highlights that Parking Eye are not entitled to the right to offer parking spaces or allege contracts between third partys and the lawful landowner. This result in the fact that Parking Eye has no legal standing to allege trespass or loss if that is the basis on which the charge has been made. It is not believed that there is any contract with the landowner/occupier that entitles these charges to be levied and therefore I request that Parking Eye produce a copy of the contract they have with the landowner/occupier in order that this be scrutinised by POPLA.

2. Even if evidence of a basic contract is produced and mentions PCNs, the lack of ownership or assignment of title or interest in the land reduces any contract to one that exists simply on an agency basis between Parking Eye and the owner/occupier, containing nothing that Parking Eye can lawfully use in their own name as a mere agent, that could impact on a third party customer.

3.The notice to keeper is not compliant with paragraph 9 (2)(h) of schedule 4 of the Protection of Freedom Act 2012 in that it does not identify the creditor . The operator is required to specifically "identify" the creditor not simply name them on it .This would require
words to the effect of " The creditor is ..... " . The keeper is entitled to know the party with whom any purported contract was made. This they have failed to do and thus have not fulfilled all the requirements necessary under POFA to allow them to attempt recovery of any charge from the keeper.

4. The BPA code of practice contains the following:

[FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman][FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman]21 Automatic number plate recognition (ANPR)[/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman][FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman]21.1 You may use ANPR camera technology to manage, control and enforce parking in private car parks, as long as you do this in a reasonable, consistent and transparent manner. Your signs at the car park must tell drivers that you are using this technology and what you will use the [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman]data captured by ANPR cameras for. [/FONT][/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman][FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman]21.4 It is also a condition of the Code that, if you receive and process vehicle or registered keeper data, you must: [/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman]
[FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman]• be registered with the Information Commissioner [/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman]• keep to the Data Protection Act [/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman]• follow the DVLA requirements concerning the data [/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman]• follow the guidelines from the Information Commissioner’s Office on the use of CCTV and ANPR cameras, and on keeping and sharing personal data such as vehicle registration marks. [/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman]21.5 If you want to make use of the Keeper Liability provisions in Schedule 4 of POFA 2012 and you have not issued and delivered a parking charge notice to the driver in the car park where the parking event took place, your Notice to Keeper must meet the strict requirements and timetable set out in the Schedule (in particular paragraph 9). [/FONT]


[/FONT]
I have had no evidence that Parking Eye have complied with these BPA Code requirements for ANPR issued tickets so require them to evidence their compliance to POPLA.

If there is any further information you require please do not hesitate to contact me.


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Stroma

Do you have a written confirmation of the retailer saying no parking tickets after hours? If not get it before submitting the appeal, because popla only really considers things that can be proven.

Guys_Dad

Your appeal - paragraph 2 last sentence. Strictly, you were not a customer if it was out of hours. Drop "customer"

Also "parties" not "partys".

Specifically ask them to indicate in the contract any mention of the hours they were to operate.

dippy149

Thank you for your comments. Thought that confirmation of my first point would be required and am in the process of obtaining written clarification from the store in question. Hopefully it will strengthen my appeal adequately. Thanks again for your help - you are so patient and tireless - you deserve medals!