Accident & Emeregcny Demand unsustainable...

Moby

Sampong wrote: »

Please explain how suspecting a link between rising population and increased pressure on hospitals is at the expense of all logic.

Would the increase in population be due to those pesky immigrants perchance?;)

ruggedtoast

Illegal immigrants and non residents can't register with a GP so use A&Es like doctor's waiting rooms.

I had to go to the A&E in Harrow once late at night. The waiting areas were absolutely packed to the rafters, and the children's A&E where we had to take our at the time 6 month old who was having trouble breathing, was full of rumbunctious children skipping around, playing and waiting to see a doctor.

I dont think I heard a word of English being spoken apart from from one south Asian family who switched back and forth.

As our child was actually sick, not there on some kind of late night jolly, we were seen pretty quickly but even so, as a working tax payer I found the experience pretty dispiriting. I don';t see why I should have to pay into an emergency service that is continually complaining about being skint and is clearly being massively over burdened by people who are either paying nothing, or havent been here for long enough to pay in.

BobQ

Sampong wrote: »

But probably the biggest contributing factor is population growing at an exponential rate through mass immigration.

There seem to be a couple of basic options;

*curb the flow of mass immigration
*pump more taxpayer money into the NHS, build more hospitals, employ more staff.

The former seems like a good idea.

.

Well I can only go on what you say. The above suggests the problem is due to mass immigration. A marginal issue, but if that is not what you meant, try explaining things differently?

Streamlining the NHS is a good policy, very populist, which means what. Contracting out services by tender to private healthcare providers?

grizzly1911

Generali wrote: »

Rising population => more working people => more tax paid => more health services supplied

Problem solved. Next patient please!

that equation would work if some of the more tax paid actually made it into the NHS in direct proportion to the increased numbers in hopsital catchment areas. As you say I am sure the level of service is indeed poor in many inner city areas and rural hotspots like Lincolnshire.

grizzly1911

Carl31 wrote: »

i agree, and something similar for GP visits, maybe a fiver

people would think twice then

or, charge the current prescription price for the appointment, and make any treatement as a result free

Don't around 90% of prescriptions get provided "free" anyway?

If that is the case most of the visits wouldn't be chargeable, on current policy, either. Would repeat, follow up visits be chargeable?

grizzly1911

Generali wrote: »

Your tax could be reduced by a greater amount.

If you make something 'free' then it will still be paid for. I live in a country where we pay a small amount for medical access (most or all of which can be reclaimed) and I can always see a GP on the day I call for an appointment and the wait in my local A&E is a fraction of those I experienced in London.

Better service for less cost. The NHS is terrible because it's free. It being free costs billions of pounds.

Where do you reclaim your "small amount" from?

I thought the Australian health care spend per capita was the same or slightly more than the UK.

I can see a GP on the same day. If I wish to see my assigned GP I may need to be flexible or wait a couple of days.

If you really need A&E wait times are OK. If you don't really need them then I would prefer urgent cases to be prioritised.

globalds

Maybe it is lifting the limit on waiting times ?

Or is that too obvious ?

It served as a limit to how much could be cut ..or how few staff you had to assign to tasks ..And more importantly it gave instant feedback into the system.If times started going up I assume meetings were held ,accountability apportioned and either people were told to up their game or explanations were accepted and more resources thrown towards solving the problem ..bring waiting times back down ..
now the tap has no way of knowing when the bath is too full and I would say that there are very few meetings as to why waiting times have gone from say 3 to 6 hours ..The only time you know now is just as we see ..when things break.
Too simple ?

resilie

Sampong wrote: »

First of all, I am referring to patients, not staff. I am referring to the fact that new arrivals are adding to the population faster than the NHS can expand to meet the demand.

Secondly, you may want to rethink your statement that the NHS would collapse overnight without immigrants.



Key point - no-one, including me, is suggesting that they be expelled - like you are trying to infer I am.

Nevermind expelling ppl- due to stricter visa rules medical recruitment has really suffered as a lot of doctors come from Asian backgrounds. It's now so hard to get a visa and the working conditions in the NHS far from rosey so they prefer to go Canada or Australia where at least they get offered permanent residency after a few years. I have not worked anywhere in the last 5 years with a fully staffed a&e rota. From a medical workforce point of view we need MORE immigration.
You say you are talking about the patients not the staff- it's swings and roundabouts mate- ppl often migrate in groups (families) so it's nearly impossible to just hire highly skilled workers and tell them to leave the wife and kids at home. Most immigrants are employed, pay taxes and are therefore rightly entitled to use the NHS- it's the service commissioning and cuts while faced with an ever growing elderly population that is the problem.

grizzly1911

PasturesNew wrote: »

I was watching one of those "24 hours in A&E" type of programmes earlier in the week and they had to go out to a pregnant woman who was having contractions. Ambulance driver said "they've had 9 months warning about this, why didn't they call a taxi?"

When our last was born 18 years ago and SWMBO waters broke they insisted on sending an ambulance, they wouldn't let me drive her in.

Generali

grizzly1911 wrote: »

Where do you reclaim your "small amount" from?

I thought the Australian health care spend per capita was the same or slightly more than the UK.

I can see a GP on the same day. If I wish to see my assigned GP I may need to be flexible or wait a couple of days.

If you really need A&E wait times are OK. If you don't really need them then I would prefer urgent cases to be prioritised.

The small amount I reclaim comes from Medicare which is financed by the Federal Government.

I don't have the figures.

We have an emergency and acute care system which is financed via Medicare and then for the other stuff you can either choose to pay yourself or use medical insurance. I use the latter which costs me about $240 a month for a family of 4 and that pays for almost all our eye care (I use contact lenses and Mrs Generali wears glasses) and most of our dental bills too.

This is the cover I get for my money:

http://www.teachershealth.com.au/our-products/extras-cover/top-extras/

I reckon I claimed the best part of $5,000 last year as I had some expensive dental work done. I was probably out of pocket about $500 on top of that at a wild guess(???).

The biggies that aren't covered by Medicare here are physiotherapy, eye care and dental care. If you are a very low earner you can get a small amount of help with those things and there are providers at all levels here that will provide health care to a price. Our local optician for example advertises that they will do 2xpairs glasses within the maximum annual claim amount for eye care for about 30-40 health insurance providers.