Job center and mental health

dktreesea

atrixblue.-MFR-. wrote: »

i dont how to take your post?


or how to take your comment about how to take a dose of your medicine.

i would rather tax payers money go towards adequite indepth training to their staff to know the benefits, rather than spending money at so called first aid MH course.

i see the concept behind the thought in theory a good idea in practice and real life not so and the repurcusions of getting it wrong would be, an apology?

What I meant was your comment about treating people as real persons. I agree with it. JCP staff could do with a good dose of whatever medicine it is that makes people treat other people as human beings. This seems to be something that escapes the "gym bunny/I'm better than you/you are worthless because you haven't got a job" morons that seem to populate the JCP advisor positions nowadays.

Not sure about them needing to go on mental health courses though. Just some training in treating other people like human beings, whatever their circumstances, instead of acting like out of control rottweilers (I have had some experience of those particular female versions of JCP staff on two occasions, going in with people who needed support) would help.

dktreesea

bloolagoon wrote: »

Just wanted to say the following

Would people expect someone with poor physical health to work?

Mental health is the same as physical health. You CAN work with poor physical health just like you CAN work with poor mental health. It isn't one size fits all. Work can be very therapeutic and assist with poor mental health, particularly if supportive, provides friendships and is enjoyable. It can be more beneficial than any form of therapy in the correct situation.

At times it is certainly not correct for them to work at the present time and can impact health greatly.

I just wanted to stats the above so people realise that you certainly can work if you want to BUT sufferers of very poor and often complex mental health are less likely to be able to communicate their needs, wants, feelings and limitations. Those without support can find JSA very daunting and frightening. So whilst not wanting people to think it means a life on benefits, work is distant or impossible - posters need to bear in mind that its like physical health, some are genuinely unable to (at this point) and JC staff certainly need some mental health training. I trained advisors in mental health first aid (yes it is a qualification just like physical health first aid) and it appears to have helped in my borough.

I am very pro work where appropriate but I see the appropriate. Some job centre staff have no idea of the harm they cause.

The thing nowadays is there seems to be an expectation that anyone on benefits, whatever their physical or mental challenges, should want to work. And when they don't, the JCP bovver boys are out in force, wielding sanctions, threats and causing misery left, right and centre.

Yes, I can appreciate that work for people suffering mental or physical health challenges can be beneficial for them. But sometimes it is less beneficial for the business and their other colleagues. It's stressful working with sick people, be they mentally or physically sick. Even if the sickness isn't contagious. The JCP's attitude to these people, particularly those on ESA, is horrible, because, even if the afflicted people wanted to work, their chance of getting work in today's climate, when hundreds of able bodied, mentally fit people go for every job, is very slim.

People who are working usually have to get on with their tasks during the day. They just don't have the time or the inclination to support their colleagues through non working issues.

[Deleted User]

xXMessedUpXx wrote: »

I think the Op should use the time she has got on esa (who knows..she may pass the assessment) as time to focus on recovery. You do sometiems have to push for help, and i know services are being cut but hopefuly there is some help avaliable. I accept some people may not ever be able to work, but some just need time to recover. I was on esa for 3 years due to MH problems, but i used that time to recover (in my case finding the right medication regime, learning how to manage my illness/know the warning signs of relapse,learning how to cope with stress) have gotten now to the point where i can work part time. And i hope to work my way up to full time (though i'm wary as the last time i did i had a breakdown and know i have to take this one step at a time), but i know very lucky in that i was given the help i needed when i needed it in the form of esa and also healthcare, and that some people are not as fortunate. hough i beleive everyone should be given the chance to try and live as normal a life as possible and the help they need to do so.

Absolutely agree wholeheartedly!

Not everyone 'can' work sometimes for a short , sometimes for a long period of time and we are all individuals

Many mental health problems are debilitating and to be told just to ''get on with it'' is simply not possible or can make someone worse / relapse

Stress changes people and some do need to 'take it easy' for a while , hence the word DE-stress and any extra or undue pressure simply makes thing WORSE

People suffering from any mental illness need a support system in place so they can recover fully in time , and it does take time

It does not mean they do not WANT to work but are simply incapable for however many months or even years it takes for them to fully and gradually get back on their feet again

This may mean starting off with a few hours work a day , not rushing into full time until ready , and then ENJOYING their jobs and the social and job satisfaction aspect of it

Many intelligent and capable people get ILL , not just physically but mentally , we are human beings , not robots programmed to function at all times nomatter what circumstances we go through or illnesses we have

I used to work for the Passport Office , Benefits Agency and was an Audit Clerk .... Could I do that full time right now , NO , could I go back to something like that in the future when recovered , a definite YES

One thing we can do when having / going through a difficult time is SUPPORT OTHERS and have compassion for them as being hard nosed about things doesn't help ANYONE , neither does a kick up the backside as most people WILL work when ready and able to do so and enjoy it too as ill or not they are still potentially productive members of society and those who need extra care need extra care , full stop

FBaby

cazzap06, I agree fully with you, but mental workers mantra is 'I can't help you if you are not prepared to help yourself', and unfortunately, many sufferers await a miracle drug, one that can be taken and make them fill great without having to show any effort towards it.

Just like someone who has suffered a stroke can only hope to get better by grueling, painful and exhausting exercise, people suffering from depression/anxiety need to do the same. They have to be prepared to take little painful steps towards doing the things they think they are incapable of doing. The professional is there to support, advise, encourage etc...., but ultimately, if the ill person is not prepared to take even the first little step, they are just not going to get better. I have worked in mental health and have see how different people accept this. Some were severely depressed, but focus all their energy on that little step to get better. Others had no intention to do that. The only comfort they had was to feel sorry for themselves and seek others to feel sorry for them too. There is nothing you can do about that, and this is why some people unfortunately can stay years and years in that state of depression and anxiety.

seven-day-weekend

FBaby wrote: »

cazzap06, I agree fully with you, but mental workers mantra is 'I can't help you if you are not prepared to help yourself', and unfortunately, many sufferers await a miracle drug, one that can be taken and make them fill great without having to show any effort towards it.

Just like someone who has suffered a stroke can only hope to get better by grueling, painful and exhausting exercise, people suffering from depression/anxiety need to do the same. They have to be prepared to take little painful steps towards doing the things they think they are incapable of doing. The professional is there to support, advise, encourage etc...., but ultimately, if the ill person is not prepared to take even the first little step, they are just not going to get better. I have worked in mental health and have see how different people accept this. Some were severely depressed, but focus all their energy on that little step to get better. Others had no intention to do that. The only comfort they had was to feel sorry for themselves and seek others to feel sorry for them too. There is nothing you can do about that, and this is why some people unfortunately can stay years and years in that state of depression and anxiety.

Absolutely agree with this.

I have seen my husband, after a severe breakdown, quite incapable of doing anything remotely resembling going to work, this was in the days when he could not answer the phone or the door or open a letter as these things were too stressful.

However, some time later, I have seen him make great efforts to cope with his illness. I have seen him work half a day a week teaching dyslexic children (he was a teacher ). Then I have seen him go in every morning into a local Secondary school to teach the same lesson to well-behaved children. Later still I saw him return to work full-time in a church school.

Yes, he always found it stressful. Yes, he had terribly bad days. I have seen him come home at 4 pm and go to bed until the following morning. And later he had to go part-time again as he really could not handle full-time, it made him ill.

But he struggled on for twenty years until he could do no more. By that time he was old enough to take early retirement so that is what he did.

I have seen my friend (hospitalised twice last year), struggle to cope and pushing herself, she would not be able to go to work, but she can do things like bake cakes for the church group, or help a teenager in distress (she has very good people skills in spite of her own disability). She is very supportive to a young friend of hers who also has a mental health illness, in fact they met in hospital.

You have to concentrate on what you can do, not what you can't. And then do it as best you can.

Dunroamin

dktreesea wrote: »

The thing nowadays is there seems to be an expectation that anyone on benefits, whatever their physical or mental challenges, should want to work. And when they don't, the JCP bovver boys are out in force, wielding sanctions, threats and causing misery left, right and centre.

I think that there has always been an expectation that everybody should want to work and that they should do so if they're able. Working should never be a choice (unless one has the money to live from elsewhere) and we've got things very wrong if this is the way that it's now viewed.

I've worked for several organisations that employed people with a disability or an illness and I never saw them treated with anything other than sympathy and a helpful attitude during their difficult times.

You must have worked for some awful places to have the negative views on employment that you seem to have.

sparkycat2

FBaby wrote: »

mental workers mantra is 'I can't help you if you are not prepared to help yourself', and unfortunately, many sufferers await a miracle drug, one that can be taken and make them fill great without having to show any effort towards it.

Just like someone who has suffered a stroke can only hope to get better by grueling, painful and exhausting exercise, people suffering from depression/anxiety need to do the same. They have to be prepared to take little painful steps towards doing the things they think they are incapable of doing. The professional is there to support, advise, encourage etc...., but ultimately, if the ill person is not prepared to take even the first little step, they are just not going to get better. I have worked in mental health and have see how different people accept this. Some were severely depressed, but focus all their energy on that little step to get better. Others had no intention to do that. The only comfort they had was to feel sorry for themselves and seek others to feel sorry for them too. There is nothing you can do about that, and this is why some people unfortunately can stay years and years in that state of depression and anxiety.

It depends on the cause of the mental health problem. If depression is being caused by their personality or environment or a traumatic event, then a change of personality or environment or learning to cope or come to terms with what happened will cure them. They need to change, to want to get better and make the effort to do so.

But that is not the case with the mental illness of depression. The emotion sadness or a pessimistic outlook, or cannot be bothered attitude are just common symptoms of the physiological illness. That like other symptoms go away as the physiological illness causing the symptoms gets better. All the person can do is learn how to cope with the symptoms if the symptoms are not too severe.

They are suffering symptoms of a physiological illness, the reason it is called an illness is because it is physiological cause not psychological (personality) cause. Physiological cause mental illnesses are no blame conditions it is not the fault of the sufferer that they get ill or fail to get better it has nothing to do with their personality or effort or lack of on their part.

In a previous post I used the example of someone with a non functioning thyroid. Which can result in symptoms of low mood, sadness, lethargy, weight gain, depression. To make the point that you cure the symptoms of a physiological illness by treating the physiological cause.

Depression can be unipolar mental illness, just as manic-depression is bipolar mental illness. The bipolar I with psychosis sufferer obviously has a mental illness as they suffer bouts of psychosis. Their happy/sadness, optimistic/pessimistic, make the effort/cannot be bothered attitude is highly dependent on if they are suffering a bout of illness and what phase the illness is in depressive or manic. It is not down to choice or lack of desire to get well on their part or lack of effort on their part. They are suffering symptoms of a physiological illness, with different symptoms depending on the phase of the illness. The same is true of people suffering unipolar depression, they are suffering symptoms of a physiological illness.

seven-day-weekend

sparkycat2 wrote: »

It depends on the cause of the mental health problem. If depression is being caused by their personality or environment or a traumatic event, then a change of personality or environment or learning to cope or come to terms with what happened will cure them. They need to change, to want to get better and make the effort to do so.

But that is not the case with the mental illness of depression. The emotion sadness or a pessimistic outlook, or cannot be bothered attitude are just common symptoms of the physiological illness. That like other symptoms go away as the physiological illness causing the symptoms gets better. All the person can do is learn how to cope with the symptoms if the symptoms are not too severe.

They are suffering symptoms of a physiological illness, the reason it is called an illness is because it is physiological cause not psychological (personality) cause. Physiological cause mental illnesses are no blame conditions it is not the fault of the sufferer that they get ill or fail to get better it has nothing to do with their personality or effort or lack of on their part.

In a previous post I used the example of someone with a non functioning thyroid. Which can result in symptoms of low mood, sadness, lethargy, weight gain, depression. To make the point that you cure the symptoms of a physiological illness by treating the physiological cause.

Depression can be unipolar mental illness, just as manic-depression is bipolar mental illness. The bipolar I with psychosis sufferer obviously has a mental illness as they suffer bouts of psychosis. Their happy/sadness, optimistic/pessimistic, make the effort/cannot be bothered attitude is highly dependent on if they are suffering a bout of illness and what phase the illness is in depressive or manic. It is not down to choice or lack of desire to get well on their part or lack of effort on their part. They are suffering symptoms of a physiological illness, with different symptoms depending on the phase of the illness. The same is true of people suffering unipolar depression, they are suffering symptoms of a physiological illness.

Whilst I agree with this, it does not mean that the person can never learn to cope with their symptoms and be a useful member of society, including going to work in some capacity.

My husband's depression is an illness, i.e. not caused by anything in his environment, or his personality, he has learned coping and managing strategies but is never totally free of it. However, he worked for twenty years in a demanding job with it. He just had to make certain adjustments (e.g. going part-time).

I know not everyone can do this, my friend can't, but she also has managing strategies, including a Psychiatric unit in her town where she can go for support, but she can certainly give a positive contribution to society most of the time.

Depressive illness doesn't mean you have to lie down and give up (although I am fully aware that there are times when it is impossible to do anything else, but these times do pass).

sparkycat2

seven-day-weekend wrote: »

Whilst I agree with this, it does not mean that the person can never learn to cope with their symptoms and be a useful member of society, including going to work in some capacity.

My husband's depression is an illness, i.e. not caused by anything in his environment, or his personality, he has learned coping and managing strategies but is never totally free of it. However, he worked for twenty years in a demanding job with it. He just had to make certain adjustments (e.g. going part-time).

I know not everyone can do this, my friend can't, but she also has managing strategies, including a Psychiatric unit in her town where she can go for support, but she can certainly give a positive contribution to society most of the time.

Depressive illness doesn't mean you have to lie down and give up (although I am fully aware that there are times when it is impossible to do anything else, but these times do pass).

While the illness should be treated with the aim of achieving the best quality of life for the sufferer, including learning to cope with symptoms if they are not too severe, and entering employment if they are capable. What they are capable of is highly dependent on the severity, duration, frequency of episodes of ill health and how stable and high functioning they are between episodes.

What I found objectionable about FBaby post was the idea those who fail to recover do so because they cannot be bothered (personality). FBaby seems to view mental illness as if it is a personality disorder.

FBaby wrote: »

'I can't help you if you are not prepared to help yourself'

FBaby wrote: »

ultimately, if the ill person is not prepared to take even the first little step, they are just not going to get better. I have worked in mental health and have see how different people accept this. Some were severely depressed, but focus all their energy on that little step to get better. Others had no intention to do that. The only comfort they had was to feel sorry for themselves and seek others to feel sorry for them too.

seven-day-weekend

I agree with FBaby to a certain extent. I have also seen people who, whilst not severely depressed, hved got themselves into 'victim mode' and spent all their time moaning and groaning about their lot, and expecting others to improve things for them, whilst making no effort themselves.

I am NOT saying that everyone with depressive illness who cannot work is like this. In fact my friend who suffers from very severe depression is an inspiration in the way she copes with her own health and also helps others, even though she will almost certainly not be able to work again.

I also agree, as I have said several times, that sometimes it is so bad that the sufferer is unable to do very much at all, both my husband and my friend have been like this at times, but have eventually improved to the extent where they can begin to take control of their lives again. However it is at that point where some DON'T begin to take control, l and I think it is these to whom FBaby is referring.

I also agree that there are some people who never improve to any large extent and this of course is not their fault.