Noisy kids upstairs, should the previous owner disclose this when selling? Help pleas

I_have_spoken

OP, you'll think it's unfair and wrong, but realistically your best bet is to sell up.

In retrospect, anyone who is working from home would have to be minded that a flat is not going to be ideal for peace and quiet.

Even if the kiddies are badly parented, you're not going to find a resolution as no-one can expect kiddies to be quiet and not run about from dawn to dusk.

Now you've raised it with the parents, every time there's a ruckus you'll be thinking they are doing it just to annoy you, that'll put you on edge and the next noise will seem all the worse. IMHO, you're on a spiral to ill health.

FeistyFidget

It is unfair and it is unjust that noisy children do not fall into the legal category for noise complaints. Granted maybe the children are not badly parented (although the late bedtimes indicate lax parenting IMO), but it still seems unfair that tenants are given priority over a leasehold resident

If you wanted to stay where you are and really are struggling with the noise, then I would keep a noise diary and calmly complain to the landlord. From what you have said, he doesn't seem keen on getting involved - complain enough (if you have a valid reason obviously) and you may find that their tenancy agreement is not re-newed OR he takes precautions to cut down on noise disturbance. He will want you to stop complaining and will eventually realize something has to be done.

I understand that noise in flats carry (I live in one) but I don't agree with the kids will be kids sentiment. If these parents are part of the brigade that believe their angelic cherubs are special enough to live without boundaries and are encouraged to unjustly impact on others lives, then I believe that the OP has every right to pursue this - Others have said that the OP is being unfair to the parents, but why is it not the parents being unfair to the OP?

uk_american

Like you, I work from home and cannot tolerate a lot of noise. If you are unable to change the source of the noise, another option is to buy a pair of Bose noise cancelling headphones. They are not cheap, but much less expensive than going through the hassle of selling your flat.

Maybe try them out in the shops first, or look on ebay. Specifically, look for the 'noise cancelling' ones such as the BOSE QuietComfort 3.

I know it can be irritating to have to wear such a thing in your own home, but the silence they give you is golden. I always take mine along when I travel, but also use them at home when I want to escape from the loud noises of the tele when my partner is watching something silly.

wannahouse

jingledoghere wrote: »

These 2 kids are toddlers. the older one is about 4 years, the younger one is about 3 as I was told. In winter time, their bed time is about 9 to 10pm. but now they usually stay active until 10pm or a little bit later. I have checked the lease. Unfortunately it does not mention the laminate floor is forbidden in this block. So, yes, I will have to find other way to cope with this.

i'm wondering if the kids are chronically overtired and hyperactive, if they are constantly up until these hours!!!
its not normal or healthy for kiddies to stay up so late all the time...
that said, theres still not much that can be done about it..
if kids go to bed on time at a reasonable hour, the rest of the grown up world can at least count on peace btwn certain hours!
we had one family living above us, (with 10 of them in a 2 bed flat) and they had young toddlers up even at 1am in the morning running about, and a newborn baby that was left to cry it out for hours..just awful for the poor kids......i was too distracted with the thugs that used to make noise partying at all hours to be bothered by the noise the children made in this instance...just felt sorry for the kids living such unstructured lives with parents that left them to their own devices till all hours...

also, i'll say again, maybe neither party are in the wrong, and both are just going about their lives in their homes without being unduly inconsiderate, but the possibility is that the building has just been poorly built and noise carries!
i do know that in some conversions at one time,some landlords didn't even bother to sound proof between floors and just split them up and provided different entrances, which makes for loads of problems for all concerned!
we live in a large,detached 3 story victorian house now, but i can hear my kids playing or talking up on the 3rd floor when i am on the ground floor, as it echos and the floor boards creak...it would be a nightmare if split into flats without any adequate soundproofing!

i wonder whether the council or possibly environmental health can come out and look to see if the building is adequately sound proofed, and if not, force the owner to rectify the problem...? anyone know?

clarabelle41

OP, it could be worth asking the tenant about having carpet fitted if isn't already. If there is a lack of carpet and soft furnishings to absorb the noise then perhaps this is something that could be addressed.

Perhaps you could record the noise, with dates & times to bolster your case when speaking to the parents and the agent. Personally if is disturbing you to this extent then i would report it to EH, some families are just downright rowdy and don't realise it & worse, dont care.

FeistyFidget

clarabelle41 wrote: »

OP, it could be worth asking the tenant about having carpet fitted if isn't already. If there is a lack of carpet and soft furnishings to absorb the noise then perhaps this is something that could be addressed.

Perhaps you could record the noise, with dates & times to bolster your case when speaking to the parents and the agent. Personally if is disturbing you to this extent then i would report it to EH, some families are just downright rowdy and don't realise it & worse, dont care.

OP has said that there are carpets in the main rooms, but not in corridors of flat and the tennants didn't seem keen to put them down - another indication of my kids, my rules

Ghostrider

I have to say, this would drive me nuts and I sympathise with the OP entirely. I'm not about to suggest that children can't play and can't run about and enjoy the life of a child, but there are boundaries, and children must be taught to live within these boundaries or they will grow to not understand that their actions have consequences. The trouble is one person's definition of the boundary is different to another.

Talking and dicsussing the matter with the parents in a civil and friendly manner is always the first and best approach, if this after a number of approaches hasn't done anything then it's unfortunate and difficult to really resolve the issue.

Personally I don't think that reporting to the council or environmental health will bear results because this involves children and its a very grey area in that respect or certainly one that for some reason people would rather sweep under the carpet, becuase you're not allowed to tell children off these days. However you and your neighbours (the Landlord) will be bound by the lease you signed when both of the properties were purchased, a legal document that if breached can and will have consequences.

I think in this instance, the landlord of the upstairs property is your best recourse, as he will be bound by the Lease and also I wouldn't mind betting would have had to have agreement from the management company (acting on behalf of the freeholders) and there will be sub-letting requirements also.

If you haven't already done so, read your Lease particularly in relation to noise and as already mentioned, it's fairly standard to see clauses relating to residents being allowed "quiet enjoyment" of their property. Also check the requirements for interior decoration, it's quite normal for the Lease to state that aside from certain areas such as a Kitchen, and maybe a bathroom although not always, must be carpeted and that wooden or other hard floor coverings are not permitted.

If you think any of this is not being adhered to then you have the right to take this up with the management company or the Freeholder, and they have an obligation to follow it up. The Landlord upstairs won't enjoy being pestered by the management company and if he's put a foot wrong under the terms of any sub-letting agreement then he might start to worry and consider the options he has with the current tenants. Basically, what i'm suggesting is, make his life as difficult as possible, pester him completely and keep at it. He is really the only one with any real powers to resolve the matter after all and if he decides that they are in breach of the tenancy agreement he can kick them out.

Failing that, you could suggest to him that he kicks them out (doesn't renew their tenancy or whatever) and you help him find a new tenant, or at a push maybe even offer to compensate him financially for the trouble of doing so. You may argue you shouldn't have to, but if its got that bad sometimes its a small price to pay.

Its a shame you can't just swap properties with the Landlord upstairs...or maybe you can...?

newbian

jingledoghere wrote: »

These 2 kids are toddlers. the older one is about 4 years, the younger one is about 3 as I was told. In winter time, their bed time is about 9 to 10pm. but now they usually stay active until 10pm or a little bit later. I have checked the lease. Unfortunately it does not mention the laminate floor is forbidden in this block. So, yes, I will have to find other way to cope with this.

I know this is of little comfort but those children will A) be in school soon and be older and not as rowdy.

Mojisola

newbian wrote: »

I know this is of little comfort but those children will A) be in school soon and be older and not as rowdy.

At 3 and 4, don't they go to nursery or playgroup or other junior social gatherings or are in reception year at school?

newbian

Mojisola wrote: »

At 3 and 4, don't they go to nursery or playgroup or other junior social gatherings or are in reception year at school?

That would be typical but OP is claiming during his work day they run around all day. Either OP is exaggerating or they are not in school/nursery/playgroup at the moment.