Noisy kids upstairs, should the previous owner disclose this when selling? Help pleas

harrup

Fire_Fox wrote: »

As I clearly stated, I am fascinated by how many people think it is acceptable.

Fire Fox....the only reason people - parents or non-parents alike - appear to find it "acceptable" is because there really isn't an alternative. Aside from moving or sound proofing. Whether or not it is or should or shouldn't be "acceptable" is irrelevant - what is relevant is that it is "unavoidable".

How CAN one successfully convey to a toddler or young child that their "normal" activity level and noise during the day is UNacceptable? Short of strapping them to a chair in a sound-proof room? Combine this with the fact that this country's climate is hardly suitable for children to be outside each and every day, least of all ALL day.

I am hardly Mary Poppins , I don't even have kids....and constant running, shouting and crying IS annoying. Hugely annoying. Every decent parent I know tries their utmost to keep the noise level down to save their own and others nerves from fraying. And EVENTUALLY, as the kid matures, they mostly succeed.

But "EVENTUALLY" is of no use to the OP who is facing a daily & unavoidable barrage of noise NOW and in the forseeable future. Be that as it may - one can't blame young children for crappy, shoddy building specs and insufficient sound insulation. Surely, that must be deemed even less "acceptable" than them being just children?

Ivana_Tinkle

Young kids are often just noisy. There's not a lot you can do about it.

My friend has two primary-age boys, both of them fairly bookish and quiet, and gets constant hassle from the downstairs neighbours complaining about them thumping about. It's not that anyone is unreasonable - it's just that living in a flat is hard when your neighbours have a very different lifestyle to you.

Assuming the kids aren't locked in 24/7 and are getting a bit of excercise occasionally, there's not a lot more the parents can do. Taking them out to run off their energy is the kind of thing that sounds like great advice but IMO doesn't really make a lot of difference.

Fire_Fox

olly300 wrote: »

You presume the landlord will be co-operative.

Currently (the OP hasn't pointed to clauses in their lease so cannot say otherwise) there is no legal basis to the OP's complaint.

Oh go away you silly little man and read what I actually posted. My last post on this matter does NOT use the word complaint, it refers to contacting and mediating.

"Does it say anything about flooring type in the long lease? Again contact EH and the freeholder regarding the noise and sound proofing, you have nothing to lose and everything to gain.The may mediate and the landlord may end up agreeing to install carpeting and/ or acoustic underlay. Rugs are not going to cut the mustard."

Whereas you state categorically
"The landlord will be aware of this and unless the leases states plainly they can't have hard flooring, s/he will ignore the OP."

Presume?

harrup wrote: »

Fire Fox....the only reason people - parents or non-parents alike - appear to find it "acceptable" is because there really isn't an alternative. Aside from moving or sound proofing. Whether or not it is or should or shouldn't be "acceptable" is irrelevant - what is relevant is that it is "unavoidable".

How CAN one successfully convey to a toddler or young child that their "normal" activity level and noise during the day is UNacceptable? Short of strapping them to a chair in a sound-proof room? Combine this with the fact that this country's climate is hardly suitable for children to be outside each and every day, least of all ALL day.

I am hardly Mary Poppins , I don't even have kids....and constant running, shouting and crying IS annoying. Hugely annoying. Every decent parent I know tries their utmost to keep the noise level down to save their own and others nerves from fraying. And EVENTUALLY, as the kid matures, they mostly succeed.

But "EVENTUALLY" is of no use to the OP who is facing a daily & unavoidable barrage of noise NOW and in the forseeable future. Be that as it may - one can't blame young children for crappy, shoddy building specs and insufficient sound insulation. Surely, that must be deemed even less "acceptable" than them being just children?

That has already been gone over: you entertain your children at home with reading, counting, colouring, crafts, cooking, toys and simple games, take them to the park and other outside spaces when it does not rain (yes they can even go out in snow, kids do the world over and have for millennia), free and cheap indoor or covered activities when it does rain. Why all day, it doesn't take all day for kids to let off steam! How do you think nurseries and schools and (decent) childminders entertain their charges for an entire day? They have quiet time and active time.

We were not the best behaved children by a long chalk but I can tell you we were not screaming, running and jumping at home, and certainly not when we visited relatives and friends. We cried, we talked and we walked to be sure. To me crying is NOT the same as screaming, I have been carefully using the terminology the OP used and I have separated the two.

Kids were seen and not heard for decades/ centuries, I don't subscribe to that level of control/ discipline, but it's perfectly possible to teach a healthy child to behave. You watch every series of Supernanny and put the blooming thing into practice. She doesn't have kids dumped in front of the goggle box, they are entertained and stimulated and played with calmly just as we were as children. She does work with toddlers not just school age.

If you had read my posts I have attempted to address the sound insulation by approaching Environmental Health and the freeholder.

olly300

Fire_Fox wrote: »

Oh go away you silly little man and read what I actually posted. My last post on this matter does NOT use the word complaint, it refers to contacting and mediating.

First of all I'm not a man.

Secondly the OP did not mention anywhere that it said in the lease they cannot have hard flooring.

Lots of leases do not have this stipulation even though they have loads of clauses about nuisance.

The children's noise is not a statutory nuisance.

The landlord doesn't need to take any action.

Finally you need to get it into your head that babies, toddlers and young children cannot be quiet like older children.

You are the silly one for not realising this.

pinkshoes

jingledoghere wrote: »

Kids go to bed usually before 10pm, then I could have some quiet moment at home.

You have kids that are younger than school age (thus at home during the day) and they're up until 10pm?!?!?

Can I be judgemental and say chavs?!?! (please?!?)

In all honesty, there's not a lot you can do. Some parents are more considerate than others when it comes to noise and rules.

My 2.5 year old goes to bed at 7pm, but some nights he refuses, and my neighbour (semi detached) has to tolerate a couple of hours of screaming and shouting and banging. I am doing my best to sort out bedtimes (we have a good routine, sometimes he gets overtired and kicks off!), but sometimes it doesn't work!

On the other hand, if I lived in a flat, I would NOT allow my son to run round - I would do my best to take him out most days.

I can only recommend buying surround sound and playing some ambient music to work to, or playing white noise that should block out some of the noise.

sinbad182

I'm sorry to hear about the OPs situation, but I've spent the entire thread laughing at Fire Fox's clumsy attempts to know-it-all and their complete inability to see the difference between kids and dogs!

jingledoghere

These 2 kids are toddlers. the older one is about 4 years, the younger one is about 3 as I was told. In winter time, their bed time is about 9 to 10pm. but now they usually stay active until 10pm or a little bit later. I have checked the lease. Unfortunately it does not mention the laminate floor is forbidden in this block. So, yes, I will have to find other way to cope with this.

Fire_Fox

olly300 wrote: »

First of all I'm not a man.

Secondly the OP did not mention anywhere that it said in the lease they cannot have hard flooring.

Lots of leases do not have this stipulation even though they have loads of clauses about nuisance.

The children's noise is not a statutory nuisance.

The landlord doesn't need to take any action.

Finally you need to get it into your head that babies, toddlers and young children cannot be quiet like older children.

You are the silly one for not realising this.

If you bothered to read my posts you would see you continue to argue against things that I am not saying. :rotfl: What is your problem, are you not getting any? I'm not either so I feel for you there.

For example "Does it say anything about flooring type in the long lease?" is a question, the clue is in the punctuation.

Fire_Fox

sinbad182 wrote: »

I'm sorry to hear about the OPs situation, but I've spent the entire thread laughing at Fire Fox's clumsy attempts to know-it-all and their complete inability to see the difference between kids and dogs!

:beer: :beer:

Norma_Desmond

Friends of ours have a flat and it clearly states in their lease that they are entitled to 'quiet enjoyment' of their property.

Feel for you OP.