Separated, how much should I provide?

JackRS

Thanks everyone for the advice and kind support.

Received the following from the mediator summarising the points and options discussed. There was a breakdown table with values for each option but can't seem to copy and paste thet ables into this format?

She wrote: I think it will be helpful for you to take legal advice on the proposals discussed and generally before we meet again. I look forward to seeing you on 15th August.


Option 1
 A sale of FMH
 Discharge of all debts (as detailed on the draft schedule of assets & liabilities) from the net proceeds of sale
 Net cash assets to be shared equally
 A pension share in Ex MrsJackRS’s favour of a percentage of JackRS’s pension necessary to equate the transfer values of their combined pension funds
 A clean break

Notes
 JackRS has provided particulars of properties  JackRS has a mortgage “decision in principle” of £149,585
 Ex MrsJackRS has provided particulars of properties
 Ex MrsJackRS will look for employment in an administrative role when she moves. She anticipates that she will be able to earn up to £15,000 per annum if she can secure such employment.
 JackRS but not Ex MrsJackRS will be able to buy a home. Ex MrsJackRS does not have a sense of fairness if JackRS buys a home and she rents a home.


Option 2
 A sale of FMH
 Discharge of all debts (as detailed on the draft schedule of assets & liabilities) from the net proceeds of sale
 Ex MrsJackRS to receive sufficient cash to buy a home free of mortgage
 A pension share in Ex MrsJackRS’s favour of a percentage of JackRS’s pension necessary to equate the transfer values of their combined pension funds
 A clean break
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Notes
 If Ex MrsJackRS buys a property at the lower price end of the property particulars provided by her, JackRS will have a deposit of about £49,000. He will not be able to buy a property within the price parameters of the property particulars provided by him.
 JackRS does not have a sense of fairness if their net cash assets are shared in this way between them.

Option 3
 A sale of FMH
 Discharge of all debts (as detailed on the draft schedule of assets & liabilities) from the net proceeds of sale
 Net cash assets to be shared equally
 Ex MrsJackRS to receive a further cash sum of £37,000 in lieu of a pension share
 A clean break


Notes
As per Option 1
It should also be noted that JackRS and Ex MrsJackRS have yet to consider their future expenses for each option.

ecgirl07

Reading that makes me think what you are looking for is an "equal share of a sense of fairness and conversely an equal share of a sense of unfairness".

Quite how you reach it I dont know but it looks like you should both steel yourself for a share of "unfairness" in order to get this resolved.

Maybe that should be the starting point - instead of whats fair - what level of unfairness could you BOTH live with?

(owness on ex-jackrs to stump up her levels of livable unfairness though)

Caroline_a

To me there is a huge flaw in the mediators arguments. In Option one the notes mention that Jack has a potential mortgage of £149k. Surely that has nothing to do with his ex - that is to do with his salary in the future. If his ex cannot get a mortgage she needs to get a job and build a career. If Jack lost his job tomorrow that part of the settlement would vanish. Similarly if his ex won the lottery after the clean break or got a high paying job she could buy a better house or even a mansion!

Jack - any chance of you going self-employed?

JackRS

Caroline_a wrote: »

To me there is a huge flaw in the mediators arguments. In Option one the notes mention that Jack has a potential mortgage of £149k. Surely that has nothing to do with his ex - that is to do with his salary in the future. If his ex cannot get a mortgage she needs to get a job and build a career. If Jack lost his job tomorrow that part of the settlement would vanish. Similarly if his ex won the lottery after the clean break or got a high paying job she could buy a better house or even a mansion!

Jack - any chance of you going self-employed?

Thanks everone for your continued support and advice

I have considered moving into contracting, but not really due to other perks such as pension and cars. However will look into if it looks like I'm going to suffer for being employed full time, maybe take early retirement?

It was the point I made in the discussion. Option 3, I suggested in order for her to have more cash from the sale of the house in lieu of my pension, based on a calculation of 1/3 of her share of my pension transfer value. This is £37K, which is a larger sum for me to give away now. I would have to raise that amount additionally by mortgage in order to buy. I won’t see the benefit until retirement in 16/17 years.

The other key point I made is yes I can get a mortgage based on my income today but that then commits me to high monthly repayments as the term would need to link to retirement age e.g. 16 years. So just like you say nobody can guarantee I will keep my job, my company is currently offering early retirement to staff at my level in their mid 50’s.

Ex Mrs JackRS response to the offer of additional £37K was it is still not enough to buy outright. I said but there is no more in the pot, we don’t have enough combined assets to share equally all our assets and you to have the amount you want to be able to buy with. I worked hard to pay my mortgage off fully 4 years ago why should I now have to give away more than half the value of the property which I also spent my free time on maintaining, decorating, gardening, projects such a decking, making the property more attractive to potential buyers.

You’ll notice that spousal maintenance was not reviewed in detail. However the Mediator did point out that the court would look to even up the difference in our income. The mediator, asked did I think it was fair that there was a large disparity in our income? Basically implying that even considering if she had a job that paid £1000/month, once our needs were calculated, including the mortgage payments I’d have to make, that they’d want to ensure one party wasn’t any better off, which would be likely to create a spousal maintenance expectation.

I said that moving forward our income was up to us to do the best we could. Why should she be entitled to a portion of my income if we are no longer together and she is fit and able. I said that she has had the luxury of the last 21 years not having to go out to work. I recognise that bringing up children and running the house while I’m at work isn’t easy and at times being at work some would consider the better option. However it was her choice that she didn’t work. That time has gone and our circumstances have dramatically changed. So why should I now be responsible to paying her any surplus I have, how can I support my adult children when they may need help? I also made the point that if she did come into money, for example she has a large 2 way split inheritance on the distance horizon, I wouldn’t expect a share in that. I know it doesn’t work like that but I hope you can understand my point, ex Mrs JackRS didn’t want to that’s for sure.

Sorry bit of a ramble this….

Like I said earlier for me to pay an extra £37K to her now is not my first choice. If it was to be agreed to, I’d also want some other incentive such as no spousal maintenance. I agreed that I’d pay the CSA recommended for my son, which using the latest calculator is £650/month until his course finishes June 2015.

Tonight I’m constructing an email to my solicitor for guidance with the negotiation. Obviously need to make sure it’s to the point and structured unlike the above as she charges to read each email and reply, normally £50 for a read and reply provided it’s a short one!

Oh yes I have looked through her expense schedule and bank statements, nothing significantly over the top when compared to mine. However I know she will take issue with mine and question lots as I have used cash to pay for many social things and sports hobbies etc, so I’m bound to be asked to explain where the cash has gone.


OK cup of tea and malteser time, I know I’m so extravagant, oh if she knew of the luxuries I was allowing myself sometimes, she’d ask for a chocolate allowance oh hold on a minute, yes indeed that’s already on her needs list…

Mojisola

JackRS wrote: »

I have considered moving into contracting, but not really due to other perks such as pension and cars. However will look into if it looks like I'm going to suffer for being employed full time, maybe take early retirement?

With no end in sight to her demands, I would be seriously considering something like early retirement or stopping work because of stress/ill-health.

The way things are going, it looks as if you could be divorced but still funding your ex for the rest of your life!

If she considers the important thing is that you are both in an equal financial situation for the rest of your lives, I'd definitely be bringing any future inheritances into the equation.

thorsoak

Had the ex-Mrs RS been working during your marriage, then there would have been a bigger pot to go round - but as she chose not to, she has to accept that the pot is smaller because of her choice to be a lady who lunches rather than a lady who buys her own lunch!

Oh dear - it really is a pity that we can't send the whole of this long thread to her, Jack - to let her know what other women think of her!

Hang on in there, Jack....your children are obviously beginning to wake up and smell the coffee - within the next six months, I'd lay odds that neither of them plans on living with her long term - and her demand for a "family home" will be a hollow one.

duchy

I do wonder if this is why she is agreeing to mediation now. Hangs on much longer and the kids may have flown and with it her need for a three bedroom house.

I think you should consider putting the cat amongst the pigeons and announce that you are considering an early retirement package as your health is suffering due to the stress you are under. Obviously that knocks firmly on the head any idea of a mortgage for you. Might bring a bit of reality to the situation.

quidsy

or ask for a share of all future inheritence to be included in the settlement. If she is due for a couple of big ones in the future it might make her less inclined to push for a larger share now if she wants a clean break.

HurdyGurdy

quidsy wrote: »

or ask for a share of all future inheritence to be included in the settlement. If she is due for a couple of big ones in the future it might make her less inclined to push for a larger share now if she wants a clean break.

^^ This.

If she is demanding a share of your future income, then in the interests of fairness and parity, then she should be prepared to share her future wealth also.

ecgirl07

You should also price up 2 bedroom flats in the area she want to live in and present the idea that if she wants mortgage free living this is how its going to happen - if she wants anything over and above a 2 bed flat then she needs to pay the difference.