Where can I get old Terms and Conditions details?

Skeletor

In light of the Lloyds TSB case failure I was thinking that it would be a good idea to have old T&C leaflets from the past few years when the charges I wish to get refunded were originally charged. I no longer have any of this information but I imagine that it will contravene the arguments from the banks claiming that these are service charges and not penalties.

I'm claiming against Natwest and I suspect that an old T&Cs document might be a great trump card to play should the case go to court. Needless to say the downloadable pdf on their website was updated in November 2006 and will be pretty hard to fault, though all but one of my charges are from well before this date so the latest T&Cs will not apply on the bulk of my claim.

I haven't tried asking Natwest yet, I was wondering if they legally have to provide me with this information if I ask for it. After all the charges were made under a contract which I would have signed, so should I have a right to see the conditions of this contract and the sebsequent ones which supersede it?

If not, where else could I get this from if anywhere?

Stephen_Leak

Good question. I keep 6 years (plus the current year's) statements, but even I just keep the latest T&C leaflet with them.

I suspect that, unless you are even more "anally retentive" than me and also keep all the T&C leaflets (I might start doing this now!), you would just have to go on the description of the charge on the statement itself.

I've just noticed that my last one on 09/04/07 says "Late Payment Fee". However, the bank haven't tried to use this (yet) and I've used our template with the words "Alternatively, if the charges are a fee for a service, then they must be reasonable under S.15 of the Supply of Goods and Services Act 1982." in my court claim, in case they now do.

chrissieo

Skeletor wrote: »

In light of the Lloyds TSB case failure I was thinking that it would be a good idea to have old T&C leaflets from the past few years when the charges I wish to get refunded were originally charged. I no longer have any of this information but I imagine that it will contravene the arguments from the banks claiming that these are service charges and not penalties.

I'm claiming against Natwest and I suspect that an old T&Cs document might be a great trump card to play should the case go to court. Needless to say the downloadable pdf on their website was updated in November 2006 and will be pretty hard to fault, though all but one of my charges are from well before this date so the latest T&Cs will not apply on the bulk of my claim.

I haven't tried asking Natwest yet, I was wondering if they legally have to provide me with this information if I ask for it. After all the charges were made under a contract which I would have signed, so should I have a right to see the conditions of this contract and the sebsequent ones which supersede it?

If not, where else could I get this from if anywhere?

I was thinking exactly the same thing myself. Is there anyway that the site could have a section where people who still have any old/outdated T&Cs could scan them in for us to refer to?

Chrissie

Skeletor

I'd be much happier using the Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts regulations because it's not as ambiguous. The trouble with the Supply of Goods and Services Act is that it's hard to define what is a reasonable charge, and it doesn't imply that the the bank can't profit from charges. Having read the Judge's statement on the recent Lloyds TSB reclaim failure this route of argument seemed to fall flat. If the claimant had just admitted that he had breached his contract and been (over)charged accordingly then I think he would have done a lot better.

Stephen_Leak

chrissieo wrote: »

I was thinking exactly the same thing myself. Is there anyway that the site could have a section where people who still have any old/outdated T&Cs could scan them in for us to refer to?

Chrissie

A great idea, but a library of these in Adobe Reader .pdf format for each bank and CCC? Maybe Martin or our webmaster would like to reply (when they've recovered consciousness).

chrissieo

Stephen_Leak wrote: »

A great idea, but a library of these in Adobe Reader .pdf format for each bank and CCC? Maybe Martin or our webmaster would like to reply (when they've recovered consciousness).

I suppose it would be a bit of a mamouth task.............but if anyone out there has a copy of Capital One CC T&Cs from around 2000 I would love to hear from them.

Chrissie

Stephen_Leak

Skeletor wrote: »

The trouble with the Supply of Goods and Services Act is that it's hard to define what is a reasonable charge, and it doesn't imply that the the bank can't profit from charges.

Yes. I know. Its as woolly as Richard Branson's wardrobe.

AndyLGR

Skeletor wrote: »

I'd be much happier using the Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts regulations because it's not as ambiguous. The trouble with the Supply of Goods and Services Act is that it's hard to define what is a reasonable charge, and it doesn't imply that the the bank can't profit from charges. Having read the Judge's statement on the recent Lloyds TSB reclaim failure this route of argument seemed to fall flat. If the claimant had just admitted that he had breached his contract and been (over)charged accordingly then I think he would have done a lot better.

The recommended Paeticulars of Claim on CAG states both the Good and Services Act and the Consumer Contracts Regulations.

Stephen_Leak

AndyLGR wrote: »

The recommended Paeticulars of Claim on CAG states both the Good and Services Act and the Consumer Contracts Regulations.

Noted. Unfortunately, using these didn't seem to do Mr Berwick much good.

However, it does seem that, if he had had the T&Cs in his "court bundle", the judge would have been able to look at and rule upon them.

kellbell_3

If we could download them from this site that would be a great help to all of us still battling on!

pete-in-london

Stephen_Leak wrote: »

I've just noticed that my last one on 09/04/07 says "Late Payment Fee".

HSBC changed 'arrears charge' to 'late payment fee' a few years ago for credit card charges, according to my statements.

They also changed their old 'Total charges' to 'notified fees/charges' more recently.

Interesting - maybe the devil is in the details.