storage heaters/electric central heating or gas?

Cardew

jchapman wrote: »

I then come across Sueka heaters which I do not totally understand.
The Sueka quote for this room -- 2 radiators -- is £1200.
Sueka heaters look like ordinary "wet" high output radiators but have a large surface storage core of composite material inside a bit like old night storage heaters.
I understand that 1kwh of electricity will give me 1kw in the room for one hour ( just like my granny's old one bar fire ) yet Sueka sales claim that their system will somehow break the normal rules of thermodynamics.
They state---
With regard to your other questions about the difference between our heaters and convector heaters, our heaters take only 15 minutes of electricity and give out about 45 minutes to an hour of uninterrupted heat. The heat is released as radiant warmth (about 75%) and convected heat (about 25%). So if you turned our heater on for 20 minutes and then unplug it, you’ll still feel warmth in the room some 45 minutes later. That feat is impossible for convected panel heaters.

They also state
Everyone uses the heaters differently. So running cost although lower than
night storage heaters (by nearly half) and other forms of electric panel
heaters, it would be misleading for us to just give you a figure and set
your expectations to that.
The Sueka sales staff are most cordial and helpful but I cannot understand how their system can appear to give out more heat than I have paid for. I then ask for names of satisfied customers to whom I can talk direct.They have a number of these in the west country where I live but do not give out names as the existing customers have been contacted late at night and the system has been abused.

And so, dear reader, I turn to you to advise me what will be my best buy to heat this room for the next 22 years.
The gas wall heater option I understand as it has worked fine before.
However, before spending my cash, I would like to be certain that the Sueka option
is not superior to the gas wall heater option. This is the only place on the internet that seems to know something about Sueka heaters and I would prefer not to reject them completely without some expert opinions.

With very many thanks in advance for any opinions that will help me make up my mind on this matter.

Welcome to the forum.

You have really answered your question yourself with this statement "will somehow break the normal rules of thermodynamics"

This is exactly the point I have been making in this thread; the implication that 'their' electrical system produces more heat for the bucks - and it can't.

Obviously it is possible for certain materials to retain the heat longer than others; but of course it takes longer to give out heat.

'Instant' heat is available with convector heater(or Granny's 1 bar) but no residual heat, an oil filled heater will take much longer to heat up but retains the heat longer. The vastly over-priced variations of a 'filled' radiator all work on this principle.

The important thing is that(again as you say) you will get the same amount of heat per £ regardless of the type of electrical heater(obviously excluding storage heating/heat pumps)

I don't think anyone can answer your query abour your gas heater unless they know the specifications/efficiency

samtheman1k

powerchamp wrote: »

If "any electrical heater makes sense", would you then narrow the search to an efficient electrical heater? Or is there no such thing as efficient electrical heater?

Congratulations, I think you are starting to understand...all electric heating is 100% efficient...all these systems have the same efficiency, but different purchase costs. The main thing that makes one system cheaper to run than another is their ability to run (& store heat) from the cheaper off-peak electricity (i.e. nsh).

samtheman1k

jchapman wrote: »

With regard to your other questions about the difference between our heaters and convector heaters, our heaters take only 15 minutes of electricity and give out about 45 minutes to an hour of uninterrupted heat. The heat is released as radiant warmth (about 75%) and convected heat (about 25%). So if you turned our heater on for 20 minutes and then unplug it, you’ll still feel warmth in the room some 45 minutes later. That feat is impossible for convected panel heaters.

That may well be true, and is exactly how NSH works. They will draw electricity for 15 mins and remain hot for 45mins, however, what they fail to tell you is that for those 15minutes, they are drawing around 4 times as much current as a conventional heater (in order to load the store with 45mins of heat) and thus the running cost will be equivalent to a conventional electric heater.

CWatters_2

Check out the table on this great site... It corrects for boiler/heater efficiency...

http://www.nottenergy.com/energy-costs-comparison2

The key figures are those in the col "Pence per kWH after boiler efficiency".

Does anyone make a GSHP that runs on mains gas? Sounds like that would be a good idea.

dfh4np

CWatters wrote: »

Check out the table on this great site... It corrects for boiler/heater efficiency...

http://www.nottenergy.com/energy-costs-comparison2

The key figures are those in the col "Pence per kWH after boiler efficiency".

Does anyone make a GSHP that runs on mains gas? Sounds like that would be a good idea.

Thanks for this info,


On that table it says that the energy content of 1kw of gas is 15.60 times that of a kw of electricity, is that right?


DFH4NP

samtheman1k

CWatters wrote: »

Does anyone make a GSHP that runs on mains gas? Sounds like that would be a good idea.

Can't tell if you're joking or not...but no you can't do that!

drjona

Dear All

I have really appreciated all of the discussion and have (sadly) read this entire thread and many others. I am particularly glad for the reminder of my school physics that heating is pretty much 100% efficient, however it is done (thanks Cardew!). We live in a 3-bed semi with no gas/oil and pay £84/month for all elec. on E7 with British Gas. Like many others have stated our 3 storage heaters only just take the edge off the cold. We are now doing a loft conversion that needs heat in the two new rooms. My collected thoughts:
- I can't find a cheaper equivalent of the Dimplex Duoheat (storage heater & day time heating)
- I am not sure that the cost of this system using E7 is making any saving over the 2 oil filled heaters I already own (but they are bulky)
- The 2 bedrooms will be occupied only when people are sleeping (i.e. on E7 time)
- If one room becomes a study for occasional use, it only needs heating when someone is in there & it is cold, so storage heating seems a bit of a waste?

So my conclusion is I want an mains plug-in electric radiator that looks nice, is programmable, but doesn't have the extra costs associated with 'clay cores', 'radio control' or 'intelligent use of energy'.

Any thoughts/suggestions very much appreciated.

Cardew

drjona wrote: »

Dear All

I have really appreciated all of the discussion and have (sadly) read this entire thread and many others. I am particularly glad for the reminder of my school physics that heating is pretty much 100% efficient, however it is done (thanks Cardew!). We live in a 3-bed semi with no gas/oil and pay £84/month for all elec. on E7 with British Gas. Like many others have stated our 3 storage heaters only just take the edge off the cold. We are now doing a loft conversion that needs heat in the two new rooms. My collected thoughts:
- I can't find a cheaper equivalent of the Dimplex Duoheat (storage heater & day time heating)
- I am not sure that the cost of this system using E7 is making any saving over the 2 oil filled heaters I already own (but they are bulky)
- The 2 bedrooms will be occupied only when people are sleeping (i.e. on E7 time)
- If one room becomes a study for occasional use, it only needs heating when someone is in there & it is cold, so storage heating seems a bit of a waste?

So my conclusion is I want an mains plug-in electric radiator that looks nice, is programmable, but doesn't have the extra costs associated with 'clay cores', 'radio control' or 'intelligent use of energy'.

Any thoughts/suggestions very much appreciated.

Welcome to the forum.

I think your appraisal is pretty much spot on.

For occasional use in a room it makes sense to put up with the additional daytime running costs of a 'normal' electrical heater, rather than the have the extra installation costs and operating disadvantages of storage heating.

Indeed in my study I have a small fan heater that I sometimes use if I am working late after the gas CH has switched off.

In the future ground/air source heat pump installation costs may reduce sufficiently to make them a more attractive proposition.

Elsa06

My daughter and her friend are students in a 3 roomed & bathroom property (by 3 rooms, 1 room each and a shared kitchen and bathroom), they have 3 storage heaters in the flat, no freezer just a fridge, a cooker, and electric shower. The water heater is put on for about 30 mins a day for the washing up and thier electric bill for this quarter is £335! EDF, when asked if they could check the meter told me that if there's nothing wrong with it, then they'd charge for the call out. What does a storage heater cost to run? Anyone know?

dfh4np

Elsa06 wrote: »

My daughter and her friend are students in a 3 roomed & bathroom property (by 3 rooms, 1 room each and a shared kitchen and bathroom), they have 3 storage heaters in the flat, no freezer just a fridge, a cooker, and electric shower. The water heater is put on for about 30 mins a day for the washing up and thier electric bill for this quarter is £335! EDF, when asked if they could check the meter told me that if there's nothing wrong with it, then they'd charge for the call out. What does a storage heater cost to run? Anyone know?

Hi,

Yes storage heaters can be expensive, The most common sizes are large and medium, As a guide i have assumed that your on E7 paying 4.2ppu off peak and 10ppu on peak. (Adjust the unit rate as per Bill)

The large uses a maximum of 24 units per night, based on 3.4kw per hour over a 7 hour charging period. At the guide it would be a maximum of £1 a day for each of them. (£90 a quarter each)

The medium uses a maximum of 18 units a night, based on 2.5kw per hour over a 7 hour charging period. At the guide rate it would be a maximum of £0.75 a day for each of them. (£67.50 a quarter each)

These are the maximums, How many units used would be dependant on the timer/teleswitch and how high the input is set on each heater.

Most water heaters are 3kw so this would use approx 1.5 units if its only on for 30 mins, if on during the day this would be at full rate which would be more than twice the price than charging over night. (£5-13.50 a quarter)

Electric showers can be hefty as they will use between 8 & 10 kw's an hour, normally at full rate, 3 students using it for 10 mins each a day would use approx 4-5 units a day which would be £0.40 to £0.50 a day(£36-45 a quarter)


Hope that helps.


DFH4NP