storage heaters/electric central heating or gas?

Cardew

Chris,

I take it you have read this thread?

http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.html?t=702257

You can use ASHPs without wet heating. However they are then like huge fan heaters. If your heat input(several kWs of heat and enough to roast you) is in your lounge - how do you get heat to the bedrooms without building in ducting?

ASHPs I understand require little maintenance as the are basically a fridge working in reverse.

They are often used 'stand alone' for, say, a conservatory.

Regarding Storage Heating, you made the point very well last time you posted that they certainly have cost advantages; not least the lack of maintenance required.

Is it not a possibility to get more modern SHs like the Dimplex duo heat and simply put up with the extra daytime running cost as needs arise - like the "gas-spoiled" offspring visit.

They are not a huge price to install as you already have the wiring. If you are moving soon they will look good and modern.

tomstickland

That has to be good MSE advice - put some more clothes on in the winter. I really hate being in overheated buildings.

housemaid_3

Hi,
have been reading through the thread to try and find anyone who has actually used kalirel or ecowarm radiators. We are looking to replace storage heaters and both these systems seem to give the option of remotely controlling each room and keeping tabs on useage etc. which would appear to be a good thing. I realise that the majority of comments on this forum are against this type of system on a running cost basis but there is no gas, nowhere to fit an oil tank or gshp and I have lived with a solid fuel system before and the mess turned me off of that idea. Night stores make it far too hot at night and we can change to economy 10 quite easily.
The info on these systems can be misleading but the idea of keeping the rooms we use warm when we are in them and not wasting energy when not there appeals. Has anyone used them please?

Cardew

housemaid wrote: »

The info on these systems can be misleading but the idea of keeping the rooms we use warm when we are in them and not wasting energy when not there appeals. Has anyone used them please?

Welcome to the forum.

The points you make in your post are perfectly logical, and there is no doubt that the convenience of electrical heating is appealing.

My biggest objection to these systems that run on daytime electrical electricity, is that the installers pretend that they somehow produce more heat than any other electrical heater - and they don't!

They cost a huge amount to install for what they are, and cost exactly the same to run as any other electrical heater.

If you want to find out how much they cost to run, buy some £20 heaters and use them and the cost will be the same.

Why pay £thousands to produce the same heat?

ACEELECLTD

Hello Bexm,
I hope that i can help you make an informed decision as to which form of heating would suit you best. I would like to express a professional interest here though in a few of the products that are available. I have had experience of installing most forms of electrical heating including Storage heating systems from Dimplex, Heatstore, Creda and several other 'own brand' heaters from wholesalers. In fact I used to specify Dimplex Storage heaters and also their combination heaters (CXL) for sociall housing projects. I have also been involved in installation and specifying Heatrae Sadia AMPtec electric water boilers. I have also been involved in the installation of the Kalirel range of heaters and through the last 5 months have worked out pro's and cons for most of the systems available in addition to becoming a stockist / installer of these systems, however I am not exclusive to any particular type or brand of heating system.
I apologise for not reading through all the 11 pages of text however would like to point out that their are lots of various systems out there that depending on your needs may suit you

Cardew

ACEELECLTD wrote: »

I have also been involved in the installation of the Kalirel range of heaters and through the last 5 months have worked out pro's and cons for most of the systems available in addition to becoming a stockist / installer of these systems, however I am not exclusive to any particular type or brand of heating system.

Welcome back. - I think.

Perhaps the best reason not to get people banned for posting on this board to advertise their services, is to let then condem themselves by the claims.

Anyone thinking of the Kalirel system would be advised to read this thread and see the the type of claim made by ACEELECLTD!

http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.html?t=240098&page=2

ACEELECLTD

Hello Cardew,
when we had our last discussion I thought that you may actually have a point about what you said. I went away and gained some more experience from actually installing various systems and then talking to the people as to how they found the system. You seem not to have evolved yourself and challenged your own opinions and views on a modern form of heating. It is so easy to to trawl back in time and take a quote that is now out of date. I am sure that 6months ago you could find a quote from someone saying that Bluray will never be adopted and that HD-DVD is the only decent format. Please try to be objective with your advice and be open to change. incedentally , just to check.. have you any relation to anyone involved with Dimplex storage heaters or profitted from continually pushing the worth of Storage heaters. What would you say have said to James Dyson if he came on here 7years ago and made the claim that his Vacuum cleaner invention would be the system for the future. Stop taking cheap shots, grow up and get into a sensible debate as to the pros and cons of the various heating systems. ps I have a home video of myself aged4 making wild claims on Xmas eve of the fact that Father Xmas is going to bring me presents and my older brother is lying when he says it is was my parents who did this. Lets have a grown up, serious response please

nick74

ACEELECLTD wrote: »

What would you say have said to James Dyson if he came on here 7years ago and made the claim that his Vacuum cleaner invention would be the system for the future.

I would have said "Why should I buy a Dyson cleaner when for half the price I can get a Numatic which, despite old technology, performs at least as well and doesn't suffer from burned out motors or silly bits of plastic breaking off?", but perhaps I'm a luddite......

Cardew

ACEELECLTD wrote: »

Hello Cardew,
when we had our last discussion I thought that you may actually have a point about what you said. I went away and gained some more experience from actually installing various systems and then talking to the people as to how they found the system.

Lets have a grown up, serious response please

If you care to read some posts I made earlier, I am on record as saying that electrical heating, even non-storage electrical heating, makes sense for very small, well insulated properties with, say, a young working couple.

In fact I posted a link to a Daily telegraph article that said similar. The advantage being twofold, low installation costs and virtually zero maintenance.

However we now have all these firms(like yours) jumping on the bandwagon and claiming(or rather implying) that systems(like Kalirel) have some way of producing heat cheaper than other forms of electrical heating, or have some 'magical' properties.

To add insult to injury they charge the earth for the installation of what are effectively electrical radiators filled with a 'substance'.

Rather than repeat the well rehearsed arguments. I am stating unequivocally that none of these systems produce any more heat(for the same cost) than an oil filled radiator you can buy for £30 or so.

Now if you want to argue the merits of your systems, show that statement is incorrect or concede I am correct.

As you well know I have never, now or in the past, been involved with any commercial organisation selling any product - let alone electrical heating.

And of course IMO storage heating makes far more sense for the majority of people than non-storage electrical heating.

P.S.
After careful consideration years ago I bought a Betamax tape recorder. Determined not to make the same mistake I bought a Toshiba HD-DVD player!!!!
The difference was that I knew both decisions were a gamble. With electrical heating systems I don't have to gamble - and nor does anyone else

ACEELECLTD

Hello Nick74, (I like your tongue in cheek style)
regarding Dyson we used their excellent warranty system so had all or repairs done for free (and when the engineer turned up he replaced some scratched / worn parts as well) when we were out of warranty we were charged I believe around £30.00 for them to fix it. This was several years ago now and we just purchased a new Dyson DC07 for £137.00 from a local retailer.(I have no connection to Dyson)
I will, (and I think is is important to everyone that they adopt the same attitude), only comment on in the first place, items that I have personal experience of.
Occasionally I may repeat information I have received, seen, read in Forums or downloaded but I ALWAYS check it out for my self and try to ensure that I state this to be the case.
On that matter, hello Cardew I know I have not read all your 4935 posts, I really like what you do on here but I feel that sometimes it is too easy to pick on little snippets and use them as the basis for your whole argument and omit the positive aspects to the detriment of other forum users.
I will not refer to ' That heating system brand' again as it is detrimental to the whole post as it can seem that I am pushing that brand. I am not, I just did lots of research and this seemed to tick the boxes for me. In recognition of the sense that you made with the play on words Energy Efficient Heating I now always refer to it as Energy SAVING heating or Energy saving efficient heating.
All electric systems are 100% efficient in converting electric energy to heat energy (except fan heaters if you were being picky) lets now start to cut through and address the claims.
To stop claims of people pushing their products lets adopt Modern electric energy saving heating as a generic for the rest of our discussion however based on my original point above I may refer to some aspects of 'that brands' functionality that back up my argument.
These types of heating fall in to 2 camps, individual point of use heating and whole house heating.
First point: They are expensive to buy
Well the Manufacturers RRP for a market leading Storage heater XLs24N £298.00 exc VAT night rate or E10(and a modern top of the range electric energy saving heater dayrate or E10[£299.00 exc VAT] are as you can see about the same. For the same functionallity and flexibility you would probably have to directly compare with Duoheat using night and dayrate or E10 [£315.49 Ex VAT] but to be exactly accurate the Calidou range dayrate or E10(but with all the additional add ons) it is now actually cheaper [£380.36 + £41.43 receiver + £83.38 transmitter exc VAT]
Wow, now I can see that by lumping all brands in together it does appear that some are really expensive in my honest opinion !!!!
The actual exact comparison with a storage heater would be the manual controlled version (dayrate or E10) but now it is £186.00 exc VAT.
remember however that we are talking about products that can be used individually but are also designed for whole house central heating
A word of warning here for consumers is that hopefully when you do your research be vary wary if the seller does not publish the prices for anyone to read (I think it was one of your concerns Cardew)
To minimise long posts lets address that first point please.
Questions or queries please