storage heaters/electric central heating or gas?

Cardew

jazzmann wrote: »

Cardew, okay, you said Electrowarm were water/fluid filled and just like oil-filled radiators ... but they're not filled with a fluid are they? their website says

" Internal energy storage elements each with own embedded heating element"

Are these storage elements not up to much?

What about WIBO - another German make - are they any better?

I'm also going to take a look at Dimplex to see if they have something similar to but better than Electrowarm/Rad.

Thanks for the input and anything you might know about Dimplex and WIBO.

We are getting at cross purposes here.

The point I am making is that it largely doesn't matter what they are filled with. It ranges from water to oil to clay. The only difference is the length of time it takes to heat up, and the length of time to cool down. The "internal storage elements" you refer to are no better, or no worse, than anything else.
For xxkWh of electricity all electrical heaters produce yyBTUs of heat - from your £10 heater to systems costing several hundred times more.

It is also not just the material in the radiator, but the quantity of that material in the radiator. This of course is the principle storage heaters work on. The older storage heaters are simply a big pile of bricks that heat up overnight on cheap electricity and give out that heat during the day.

The important thing is that these water/oil/clay filled radiators all cost exactly the same to produce heat and on daytime electricity there is no more expensive way to heat your property.

Dimplex were the major name for producing oil filled radiators, and have a good reputation; but now produce lots of different types of heater - including storage heaters. However the principle as above applies - they are no more efficient than any other type of electrical heater.

If you look at other posts I readily acknowledge that electrical heating(even non-storage heating) can make economic sense for a small property where the occupants are out for much of the time.

The reason for this is that electrical fan heaters and oil filled heaters can be bought for a few pounds and there are no maintenance costs.

My objection is to people selling systems costing £thousands that have no running cost advantages over heaters costing £30.

espresso

jazzmann wrote: »

That's if he or she hasn't been frightened off.

Frightened off by fact.

jazzmann

Cardew wrote: »

The point I am making is that it largely doesn't matter what they are filled with. It ranges from water to oil to clay. The only difference is the length of time it takes to heat up, and the length of time to cool down. The "internal storage elements" you refer to are no better, or no worse, than anything else.
For xxkWh of electricity all electrical heaters produce yyBTUs of heat - from your £10 heater to systems costing several hundred times more.

Cardew, thanks for your input.

samtheman1k

Note that Electrorad isn't central heating as claimed as far as I can tell. They appear to be a series of independant heaters that each seem to have their own thermostats. Central heating is where the heat is produced centrally and distributed to the emitters, (the clue is in the name).


Also, their tests on their website may well be true with regard to their running costs, but what they don't show is the equivalent cost of heating the same house with cardew's granny's 3 bar fire which may be the same price (or even cheaper!).

Cardew

Welcome to the forum – interesting post.

You are absolutely correct that money spent on most forms of insulation will pay itself very quickly.

The one major exception, as you point out is double glazing. In fact if you look at that ‘investment’ in strictly economic terms, it will never pay for itself. The money paid(or lost on savings) in interest on the cost of installing the windows will be more than the savings in energy. Not to mention the finite life of D/G before the seals break down, misting occurs and expensive replacement becomes necessary.

I have posted a couple of times quoting the Daily Telegraph article that argues the case, like you, that electrical heating can make sense if you consider the savings on installation of heating systems, and virtually zero maintenance costs.

My ‘campaign’ has not been against electrical heating, but against these charlatans who sell hugely overpriced systems with claims(or implications) that ‘their’ system is endowed with some of magic properties that increase the heat output and thus reduce the price of electrical heating.

I would make just one comment on your costs.

The average house uses 20,500kWh gas and 3,300kWh pa, and energy costs average around £1,000. You have used a total of 10,538kWk and spend £960

Even taking into account the efficiency(or inefficiency) of a gas boiler, with your electrical heating you have used about 50% of the total energy but spent the UK average. Had a gas heated house used 10,538kWh for gas and electricity they would have spend much less than you.

dingue

Thank you for your interesting comments - in the end, you choose which system meets your needs. Myself, I prefer low maintenance and higher running costs. I have had some good and some truly awful experiances with trade electricians and plumbers. Electric heating can be installed by any reasonably competent DIY person.There is stacks of helpful information available from books and on the internet.

Cardew

dingue wrote: »

Thank you for your interesting comments - in the end, you choose which system meets your needs. Myself, I prefer low maintenance and higher running costs. I have had some good and some truly awful experiances with trade electricians and plumbers. Electric heating can be installed by any reasonably competent DIY person.There is stacks of helpful information available from books and on the internet.

Agreed!!

Just a note of caution.
I understand that a non-qualified person is not allowed(by law) these days to carry out the sort of electrical work that you did.

See:

http://www.house-signs.co.uk/info/electrical-safety.html

Haven't bothered to read up the regulations(cos I would ignore it).

I recently had a booster pump fitted and the plumber said it would be more than his Corgi status was worth to get involved with connecting it to the mains.

I wouldn't be surprised if changing a 13amp plug was illegal!!

samtheman1k

Looking at it in a strickly economical view is wrong IMO. We have just installed an air source heat pump (i.e. electric) system which was very expensive to install and will probably never actually pay for itself, however, we looked at the whole picture, not just the money. Central heating is much more responsive than storage heaters and you don't have to predict the next days weather etc. As we are both out working all day, most of the heat would be wasted and that just seemed ludricous to me. We were in the fortunate place where we could afford to install a more expensive system to give us a level of comfort and controllability that we desired, without unsightly & PITA storage heaters. That money we spent is worth it in my opinion, even though it cost more than other solutions (i.e. NSH). It all depends on what your priorities are, if it's financial, then one solution is best, if it's comfort, then it's another etcs.

One thing you've missed on your economic viewpoint, is the variation in house prices for gas and storage heaters. If you were to sell, a house with gas CH is likely to increase the value of your house (and thus would pay for itself, plus some).

danieln_2

Good Afternoon,

I hope it is ok for me to post on this thread, if not let me know and I will repost as necessary...

I have storage heaters and by the look of it they seem to be the best option for electric only... however I wondered what people think of having one of the wall mounted dimplex oil filled panel heaters for use in a spare room? It would only be used on very low and possibly only when we have guests... the benefit for us would be losing one of the ugly storage units!

Also... We are on E7 for the storage heaters... What I wasnt sure about was if I put the dishwasher etc... on a timer to run at say 2am would this automatically use E7 or is this fed from a seperate supply?

Our water is heated using electric and features a single element but I think this heats up continually as when you use some water you could hear it kicking in to heat the tank back up... however i have turned this down as it was stupidly hot so hopefully this will be more economical. Based on the answer to the above I could put the immersion on a timer too and have it heat after 12:30am?

thanks in advance

daniel

Cardew

danieln wrote: »

Good Afternoon,

I hope it is ok for me to post on this thread, if not let me know and I will repost as necessary...

I have storage heaters and by the look of it they seem to be the best option for electric only... however I wondered what people think of having one of the wall mounted dimplex oil filled panel heaters for use in a spare room? It would only be used on very low and possibly only when we have guests... the benefit for us would be losing one of the ugly storage units!

Also... We are on E7 for the storage heaters... What I wasnt sure about was if I put the dishwasher etc... on a timer to run at say 2am would this automatically use E7 or is this fed from a seperate supply?

Our water is heated using electric and features a single element but I think this heats up continually as when you use some water you could hear it kicking in to heat the tank back up... however i have turned this down as it was stupidly hot so hopefully this will be more economical. Based on the answer to the above I could put the immersion on a timer too and have it heat after 12:30am?

thanks in advance

daniel

With the exception of expensive to install heat pump systems, storage heating is the cheapest way to heat using electricicity.

However they do have drawbacks in convienience and, if you are in all day, usually run out of heat.

Most properties have their house wired so that all electrical use(immersion heater, appliances etc) runs on Economy 7 during the 7 hours. It would be easy to check - simply switch them on during the 7 hour period and watch the meter.

Any electrical heater makes sense for limited use in a room; the cost of installing an alternative system will outweigh the savings.