Baroness Thatcher passed away

PaulF81

More work for those on welfare to work if they do.

I have a shovel they can borrow.

Murphy_Gooner

PaulF81 wrote: »

That's not the employers problem, its the fault of socialists who enforced a national minimum wage. And having spoken to a fair few polish workers working agri locally at the pub, I can assure you if you work hard, it is still lucrative.

If they couldn't afford them, they should have practiced birth control or got rid when they got pregnant. A perfect example of why cb needs capping. If you can't afford, don't have.

So what about people who have been working in the building trade or whatever it may be who have been laid off work through no fault of their own. And they have kids?
These people deserve help and support. Yeah i fully agree that anyone who has no interest of ever working, yet happily spawn kids and take handouts should be forced to do work, even if its working for a charitable organisation or somewhere, where they can gain skills.

Just remember, there are people in this country who are struggling to get by. And thats through no fault of their own.

PaulF81

Murphy_Gooner wrote: »

So what about people who have been working in the building trade or whatever it may be who have been laid off work through no fault of their own. And they have kids?
These people deserve help and support. Yeah i fully agree that anyone who has no interest of ever working, yet happily spawn kids and take handouts should be forced to do work, even if its working for a charitable organisation or somewhere, where they can gain skills.

Just remember, there are people in this country who are struggling to get by. And thats through no fault of their own.

And I fully agree with you. Unfortunately, socialists like to lump the latter in with the deserving former. Labour have only jut woken up and realised that actually, this narks off the majority of the electorate.

I know a fair few brickkies and carpenters who are commuting hundreds of miles to get contract work. Some are in my family. The vast majority whilst finding it tough are managing to keep going if they look for work further afield. For those that genuinely can't, of course state (and local community) support is appropriate.

Murphy_Gooner

PaulF81 wrote: »

And I fully agree with you. Unfortunately, socialists like to lump the latter in with the deserving former. Labour have only jut woken up and realised that actually, this narks off the majority of the electorate.

Yes, but what i see alot of, is people who are being tarred with the same brush and any single person who is claiming benefits are being treated as if they are a scrounger.
I know people who have worked for years and years, paying tax etc. They get laid off work and have to claim benefits and then all of a sudden, they are a scrounger

CLAPTON

Murphy_Gooner wrote: »

Yes, but what i see alot of, is people who are being tarred with the same brush and any single person who is claiming benefits are being treated as if they are a scrounger.
I know people who have worked for years and years, paying tax etc. They get laid off work and have to claim benefits and then all of a sudden, they are a scrounger

who do you see that treats those people as a scrounger?

Murphy_Gooner

CLAPTON wrote: »

who do you see that treats those people as a scrounger?

Its how its put out in the media and the government.

PaulF81

Murphy_Gooner wrote: »

Its how its put out in the media and the government.

No, it's how you perceive the media and the government.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confirmation_bias

We are all guilty of this. It's how things get so heated on here.

Generali

Graham_Devon wrote: »

Shame to see this thread go this way. No stopping it now though I guess. The internet gives people the freedom to say stuff they wouldn't dare say in company.

You don't have to agree with someone to respect their courage to make tough decisions. Such people will never get every decision right. Not many are able to do what she did and still allow democracy.

But one things for sure, such people are in short supply and will always be remembered, for good and bad. Her passing does not change anything, therefore theres little reason to celebrate it other than a vile type of amusement.

Anyway, up to individuals to take this as they wish, just personally feel it's a shame some can't seem to contain themselves.

The reason why so many on the left are so vitriolic about Maggie is that she destroyed the hard left forever in the UK and, along with Reagan, destroyed Communism in Europe.

They will never forgive her for it and she saw it as one of her great achievements I believe.

dryhat

This chart was published 4 months ago ....
https://twitter.com/MartinBelam/status/284761751520702465

BobQ

Generali wrote: »

The reason why so many on the left are so vitriolic about Maggie is that she destroyed the hard left forever in the UK and, along with Reagan, destroyed Communism in Europe.

They will never forgive her for it and she saw it as one of her great achievements I believe.

I think this may indeed apply to the same small minority who were manipulating the unions for wider political purposes.

But I think most people who despise her do it for more personal or societal reasons.

They saw their communities destroyed by what was largely a political and ideological response to the more extreme union activists of the time. It does not matter whether she was right or wrong she destroyed the very communities that they lived in. It was not just miners and steelworkers but those businesses she claimed to support that depended on their income.

Equally the unemployment of the time combined with high interest rates meant people lost their homes or knew people that did. A whole generation of young people (much like today) found it difficult to find work. She simply did not care about the major industrial cities like Liverpool and Birmingham and used the police to enforce any kind of protest.

Even if you believe that this was all justified and necessary, her attitude was patronising and callous and if you were affected you hated her for this, not for some extreme political reasons. Most ordinary people do not have extreme political views.

My dislike of Thatcher came much later. After years of neglecting the NHS, I watched my grandmother suffer through neglect as a subsequent independent investigation confirmed.

I cannot agree she was evil, but neither can I buy into the hagiography.