Christening or no christening?????

MortgageMamma

Absolutebounder, I'm just interested in your atheism and views on religion and its impact on society

Do you think religion is the main cause of the unspoken rules in society that we must all have monogamous relationships?

absolutebounder

MortgageMamma wrote: »

Absolutebounder, I'm just interested in your atheism and views on religion and its impact on society

Do you think religion is the main cause of the unspoken rules in society that we must all have monogamous relationships?

People are very insecure when isolated so they tend to join groups and take on the herd principle. We tend to take on an identity with the herd hence nationalism and racism ie my herd is better than yours.
Its no different with religion. I believe man has made gods and religions to satisfy a need. One part is to explain our purpose here the other is to give identity. each herd has different rules to give it its identity. Some identities are quite brutal in their way of showing which cult they belong to eg Female circumcision or male circumcision, body piercing, Weird and dangerous rituals even sacrifice. normally you wouldnt get away with these things in a responsible society but if the great "sky Fairy" deems it OK then thats normal practice.
Most religions have some form of marriage so it is their rules that dictate monogamy though there are some religions that do not eg mormons. I suppose the great thing is that whatever your particular bent there is a religion somewhere that condones it.
Atheist are no different except that we do not believe in a god as a creator and so are only shackled by the rules of common decency and the land we live in, Instead of having religious rules to contend with as well. We dont have a god to take to war with another religion.

MortgageMamma

Thats a very interesting viewpoint. So you think that monogamy is not only imposed by religion but by the society we live in as well? Personally I think monogamy is !!!!!!!! because I am sure there are many that do not remain monogamous that claim to do so. And those that do I am sure occassionally wish they didnt have to do so. I have this discussion with my husband all the time. Monogamy - a good thing or a bad thing? I see both side of the debate and identify with both, suppression of feelings and urges is bad yet cheating runs the risk of family break up which is also bad.

I once read a book on African tribes and female circumcision. Apparently they have a ritual and then all the women in the village go into a hut and cut off and 8 year olds clitoris. No anaesthesia no pain relief whatsoever. They dont even stitch them. They then lock them in a single room with little water and food for two weeks. Some of the girls die from infection, as the urine, hot weather and lack of sanitation inevitably mean they will be infected at some point in the two weeks. This is really really sad, its so unfair that those females have to endure that and a life where they never experience the joys of sexual pleasure. I believe there are people protesting against this in the western world but its made no difference.

Eels100

We're not religious ourselves, and neither are my parents. However, although OH's mum doesn't attend church she is a Christian and will expect us to have a christening.

I don't believe in Christianity and I don't want my child to be brought up to believe any particular faith, especially one we don't follow - they can choose their own beliefs when they are growing up and I will support them as much as I can in that choice, but it will be their own choosing and not mine.

I can foresee a battle because MIL will expect us to christen our baby but I certainly won't be arranging it to please her! She's a lovely lady but it would be hypocrisy in the extreme for us to take our child to the church and have it baptised when neither of us are members of the religion. MIL has probably got the gown dry cleaned and ready ... don't know how we're going to tell her ...

inkie

However, although OH's mum doesn't attend church she is a Christian and will expect us to have a christening.

I find this strange that she would expect you to have your baby Christened whilst professing Christianity and not going to church. Which denomination of church wer you anticipating (or hoping not!) to use? The minister will (or should!)discuss with you the reasons for you wanting a Christening - I suppose if you were to be truthful and say that it's pressure from the MIL, then he would actively discourage you from going any further with it, and therefore you could cite her (the minister) refusal as the reason why you arn't having the baby Christened.

Or - why not just say that as you are of no Christian belief, that rather than making all kinds of promises that you do not wish to adhere to..etc, and go for a Thanksgiving service instead. This could be a way forward - you are not signing up to membership of the church/promising to bring your child up as Christian, but simply thanking God for him/her, and asking His blessing on their life.

Eels100

Thanks inkie - but we won't be having any sort of ceremony, religious or otherwise. It's just not my bag.

inkie

Thanks inkie - but we won't be having any sort of ceremony, religious or otherwise. It's just not my bag

OK love - stick to your guns and i hope that you don't have such a hard time with MIL!

absolutebounder

MortgageMamma wrote: »

Thats a very interesting viewpoint.

Praise at last LOL

So you think that monogamy is not only imposed by religion but by the society we live in as well?

Definitely. There are religions that do not impose monigamy but then I believe man made religion to suit himself. There are a lot of advantages with monogamy but also some disadvantages especially financial if you get caught playing away from home

Personally I think monogamy is !!!!!!!! because I am sure there are many that do not remain monogamous that claim to do so. And those that do I am sure occassionally wish they didnt have to do so. I have this discussion with my husband all the time. Monogamy - a good thing or a bad thing? I see both side of the debate and identify with both, suppression of feelings and urges is bad yet cheating runs the risk of family break up which is also bad.

Cant argue here. I think it just depends on peoples views of things.

I once read a book on African tribes and female circumcision. Apparently they have a ritual and then all the women in the village go into a hut and cut off and 8 year olds clitoris. No anaesthesia no pain relief whatsoever. They dont even stitch them. They then lock them in a single room with little water and food for two weeks. Some of the girls die from infection, as the urine, hot weather and lack of sanitation inevitably mean they will be infected at some point in the two weeks. This is really really sad, its so unfair that those females have to endure that and a life where they never experience the joys of sexual pleasure. I believe there are people protesting against this in the western world but its made no difference.

Its made no difference because its "their religion" and people over inflate religious rites (or did I mean Rights there). Another problem is that it is affecting women who in most western religions (certainly Christianity Islam and Judaism ) are second class citizens so there is not the same outrage as if it were males.

I think religion often shoots it self in the foot as regards human relationships in that I talks of love being paramount but only as long as you both have the same faith. Different faiths tend to be unwelcome so much so that peolple either cant marry or have to lie their back teeth off. Catholicism has generated for example massive problems over Celibacy of priests. I liked a postcard I saw in Ireland that said "celibacy is not hereditary". It is also not natural which is why so many priests have got in to trouble with sex. It is just tampering with human nature to satisfy religion. i dont think the bible recommends it but inkie may correct me there.

inkie

It is just tampering with human nature to satisfy religion. i dont think the bible recommends it but inkie may correct me there.

Any religion should look to it's authoritative teaching documents (i.e. to the Bible for Christians.) This is where we are in danger of 'adding on' man-made rules for the 'benefit' of the church. I expect that the ideas behind celibacy is so that there are no distractions for the priest ministry - which could potentially lead to another 'distraction' i.e. family, thus preventing full concentration of the vocation. However, some people may feel called to a life of celibacy (priest or not), and so if that is what they feel that God may be saying to them at that time - then good on 'em!
Not something that I agree with tbh, as a thirty something mother of 2, I feel that my family are very much part of my ministry, and that I am no less dedicated to my ministry by not being celibate and having a family. To me, the fact that I live a normal life with the trials and challenges found in any other family speaks volumes that Christianity is a lifestyle that is fully accessible to all if they so chose. And we even have to do the school run - so i'm off now!

MortgageMamma

One would think that it would be beneficial for priests to be able to lead normal sexual lives and have families so they can identify with their congregations and really understand the issues that they are meant to support them with. Personally I feel the reason priests are not permitted to have sexual relationships is one of image - to ensure they remain a "pure being" and have an aura of saintliness which will ensure respect and admiration from the worshippers and I think thats really sad for the priests. They should be allowed a life too.