Tmobile price increase

Chimper

anna2007 wrote: »

This is really bugging me now!! PowerfulRogue - see my post #402, it might help - remind them of their obligations under the Ofcom Code of Practice - they have an obligation to provide you with a deadlock letter if requested on valid grounds (which breach of contract terms is).

Copy Ofcom into the email too:
[EMAIL="OCCtelecoms@ofcom.org.uk"]OCCtelecoms@ofcom.org.uk[/EMAIL] - see if that does the trick.

As you've already requested a deadlock letter, give them another 24 hours to provide it - and if they're foolish enough to refuse/ignore you again - do what Ruflonger (see post above yours) is doing and go to CISAS anyway

I reminded them yesterday of their obligation to issue a deadlock letter, but no response as yet. To date I've always had a reply off them within a day or two, so will wait to see what tomorrow brings.

Don't forget Watchdog's on BBC tonight, I wonder if T-Mobile will be one of the companies to feature.

nivag1961

daveuk1 wrote: »

A couple of clarifications in reference to previous posts:

1. That stuff about unfair contract terms and the cancellation fee being a penalty is utter nonsense. Please do not waste your time or money relying on it. In short, T-Mobile's loss if you cancel is your line rental for the remainder of the minimum term. The charge is therefore a completely reasonable pre-estimate of their loss and is not a penalty. N.B. this point has nothing to do with your right to cancel under 7.2.3.3.

2. The breach (arguably) is T-Mobile's refusal to accept notice of cancellation. It is not the price rise in itself. A useful distinction if you want to sound like you know what you're talking about.

Thank you for your opinion as to my comments, I respectfully suggest you might use less aggressive language. It may be you do not understand my points but to call them "Absolute Nonsense" is a little rude.

Where did you study law? I did my LLB in Nottingham Law School and I do know what I am taking about.

As for your comments on Penalty Clauses... First, the terms do not actually have any Liquidated Damages clause. They do contain a Cancellation Charge but this is not quantified. It is therefore a penalty, as is has no estimate for loss (quite another thing from line rental and package charges in full). I have no plans to educate pork herein but some others may find the following of use.

Unfair Contract Terms 1977: S.11 – “The term is required to be a fair and reasonable one to include in the contract”. Allowing this flexibility in one direction only is not fair… in my view.

[FONT=&quot]Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations 1999 [/FONT]I feel that the term “causes a significant imbalance in the parties' rights and obligations to the detriment of the consumer” is relevant here.

Penalty Clause: I respectfully refer you to he comments made by [FONT=&quot]Simon Devonshire QC, regards the definition of penalty clauses, it is a reasonable and accurate summary: “contractual stipulation for a payment in the event of a breach will be enforceable if it is a genuine pre-estimate of damage, but not enforceable if it is a penalty”.
[/FONT]

I suggest NO ESTIMATE is not a reasonable estimate.

Anyone may PM me if you want to see a copy of my LLB (full not conversion) or my BSc.:rotfl::rotfl::rotfl:

arturbdg

nivag1961 wrote: »

Thank you for your opinion as to my comments, I respectfully suggest you might use less aggressive language. It may be you do not understand my points but to call them "Absolute Nonsense" is a little rude.

Where did you study law? I did my LLB in Nottingham Law School and I do know what I am taking about.

As for your comments on Penalty Clauses... First, the terms do not actually have any Liquidated Damages clause. They do contain a Cancellation Charge but this is not quantified. It is therefore a penalty, as is has no estimate for loss (quite another thing from line rental and package charges in full). I have no plans to educate pork herein but some others may find the following of use.

Unfair Contract Terms 1977: S.11 – “The term is required to be a fair and reasonable one to include in the contract”. Allowing this flexibility in one direction only is not fair… in my view.

[FONT=&quot]Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations 1999 [/FONT]I feel that the term “causes a significant imbalance in the parties' rights and obligations to the detriment of the consumer” is relevant here.

Penalty Clause: I respectfully refer you to he comments made by [FONT=&quot]Simon Devonshire QC, regards the definition of penalty clauses, it is a reasonable and accurate summary: “contractual stipulation for a payment in the event of a breach will be enforceable if it is a genuine pre-estimate of damage, but not enforceable if it is a penalty”.
[/FONT]

I suggest NO ESTIMATE is not a reasonable estimate.

Anyone may PM me if you want to see a copy of my LLB (full not conversion) or my BSc.:rotfl::rotfl::rotfl:

Forgive me my ignorance my background is not law and as such can you please explain me something?? I use common sense approach

Vodafone increased the price, O2 did it, Orange did it....I do not know what is the customer base of each (milions??)
Now going with your way of thinking anyone should be able to cancel the contract at any time whether there is price increase or not because the terms & conditions are unfair by default, so why nobody did it??

Not to mention that OFCOM or CISAS would have noticed that terms&conditions are unfair. Or maybe there is a conspiracy going and OFCOM is actually owned by mobile network providers??

I mean if somebody did it and even if any of the providers made the case quiet wouldn't they change their terms & conditions to close the loophole.

powerful_Rogue

RandomCurve wrote: »

Powerful Rogue,

If it is not to late can you also add to you letter (point 5 etc) the following points:

1. Your audited accounts were based on EE being a going concern, I doubt an auditor would have signed off those accounts if you were taking such a risk, and as you announced the price rise in the media on 1st March it is reasonable to assume that the auditors would have been aware of the Boards proposed actions
2. Your Annual accounts have a whole section on risk and how it is managed (eg interest rate risk, Foreign currency risk etc) to assure investors of the good stewardship of the company, but they are silent on this risk - why?
3. There is nothing in the auditors report re post balance sheet events alerting investors to the risk being taken
4. As there is a possibility that EE may try a stock market flotation later this year I have copied [EMAIL="new@sky.com"]new@sky.com[/EMAIL] into this email as potential investors will need to be aware of EE's risk appetite.

That should make them take stock (no pun intended)

Thanks RC.
Just so I know what im talking about if I were to add these points, was EE a going concern not that long ago?

anna2007

powerful_Rogue wrote: »

Thanks RC.
Just so I know what im talking about if I were to add these points, was EE a going concern not that long ago?

I was just thinking, if you add this to your email, it might delay your deadlock letter? I'm already at CISAS stage, so I'm happy to email EE with RandomCurve's additional points? Although I may be on EE's 'ignore list'

powerful_Rogue

anna2007 wrote: »

I was just thinking, if you add this to your email, it might delay your deadlock letter? I'm already at CISAS stage, so I'm happy to email EE with RandomCurve's additional points? Although I may be on EE's 'ignore list'

Very good point. Might leave it until I get my deadlock letter.

RandomCurve

powerful_Rogue wrote: »

Thanks RC.
Just so I know what im talking about if I were to add these points, was EE a going concern not that long ago?

When a company publishes it's accounts there is a statement (verified by an independent auditor) that the basis of the accounts is that the company is a "going concern" i.e. nothing at the present time suggests they are going to go bust.
Now taking a risk that EE claim to have taken would I believe have prevented the auditor from agreeing the accounts (which would basically leave EE stuffed as (my interpretation) they can only trade because of the loan finance they have in place). The timing of the price rise (1st March) announcement and the timing of the accounts may be such that the auditor would not have been aware, however I would be surprised if the auditor was unaware when signing of the "post Balance sheet events" as a decision of this magnitude (to gamble the company) should have been disclosed.

Maybe best to follow anna2007 advise and leave it out after all.

RandomCurve

To make things as simple as possible for those who wantto cancel their contract and are not sure what to do I will post two furtheritems. The first will be “The Phone Call”and the second will be the “Follow-upLetter”.



Before going onto the next posts you need to be awarethat T-Mobile are Playing dirty Tricks in the whole process from the moment youdecide to cancel. So remember:


1. You are cancelling due to BREACH of CONTRACT –not because of the price rise.

2. You want to:

a. CancelWITH IMMEDIATE EFFECT without penaltyAND you want a PAC and unlock code for your phone.

b. T-Mobilewant to limit the amount customers cancelling before 9th May and sothey will take their time



To cancel without penalty you have to (per the contract)phone 150, however there is NO ONE THERE – OR in CANCELLATIONS who can cancel yourcontract without penalty, so don’t wasteyour time arguing with them just follow the script in the “The Phone Call” post.

Make a note of the date and start and end times of thecall – you may need these later in the process.

RandomCurve

(Remember to note date and start and end time of thecall)



Once you have got through security and they say somethinglike

“How can I help you today” say

YOU “Hello may I take your name and team number before we begin?”

If they say ANYTHING other than giving the info requested(it will be another trick and you must not discuss anything to then with them) just say

YOU “I really need your name and Team number before I Continue”

Again If they say ANYTHING other than giving the inforequested (it will be another trick and you must not get drawn in) just sayagain

YOU “I really need your name and Team number before I Continue”

If after this third time of asking they still won’t giveyou the info then just say

YOU “ Thank you for your time “

and end the call.



If they give you their name and number (and they shoulddo this first time) say



YOU “I am phoning to inform you that I believe the Price rise that you wrote to me about in early April is such that it triggers my right to cancel my contract with you WITHOUT PENALTYTO ME. Can you cancel my contract without penalty to me and issue me a PAC code and unlock code?”

They will now try and engage you in conversation such asasking “Is it a PAC code you need?” (This is A TRAP) or is due to the price rise?(ANOTHER TRAP) – do NOT say anything other than

YOU “I’m sorry it is a simple YES or NO answer I require. Are you able to cancel my contract without penalty to me”

Again they will try and draw you into a trap and again YOU DON’T respond other than saying:

YOU “I’m sorry it is a simple YES or NO answer I require. Are you able to cancel my contract without penalty to me?”

This time they should say “no”, but they might try andtalk to you again, either way just say

You “Okay thank you for your time, I have now notified T-Mobile that I consider the price rise notified to be higher than the allowed RPI and that I I wish to exercise my right to an immediate cancellation without penalty to me”and end the call – don’t say anything else to them the person at the endof the phone really CAN’T cancel your contract without a penalty but they CANlead you into traps!

RandomCurve

USE the following if you were given the Name and number of theperson you spoke to



This should be sent to [EMAIL="executive.office@everythingeverywhere.co.uk"]executive.office@everythingeverywhere.co.uk[/EMAIL]and to [EMAIL="Olas.swantee@ee.co.uk"]Olas.swantee@ee.co.uk[/EMAIL]



(I would also be grateful(you don’t have to do this) if you also send the email to [EMAIL="news@sky.com"]news@sky.co[/EMAIL]m

[EMAIL="Which@Which.co.uk"]Which@Which.co.uk[/EMAIL]

[EMAIL="Jayne.atherton@ukmetro.co.uk"]Jayne.atherton@ukmetro.co.uk[/EMAIL]

[EMAIL="EAN@ft.com"]EAN@ft.com[/EMAIL]

So we might be ableto finally get some publicity for this!)



Title - Breach of Contract

Dear Sir,



I called your Customer Services line on DATE at TIME and spoke to NAME NUMBER.

Unfortunately NAME was unable to assist me and therefore I am writing to you to inform you that due to your recent price rise letter being above the published RPI rate at the time I am exercising my right to terminate my contract without penalty to me with IMMEDIATE effect. Please ensure that you send me a PAC code and an unlock code.



My rights to cancel mean the termination should be immediate and will be deemed to be effective 24 Hours after the sending of this email. Pleaseensure that any sum prepaid on my account up to this time and date is also refunded.



Regards





You Name



USE the following ifyou were NOT given a Name when you phoned.



Title - Breach of Contract Clause

Dear Sir,



I called you Customer Services line on DATE at TIME, buthe Customer Services Rep declined to give me their name, so I terminated thecall.





I am writing to you to inform you that due to your recent price rise letter being above the published RPI rate at the time I am exercising my right to terminate my contract without penalty to me with IMMEDIATE effect. Please ensure that you send me a PAC code and an unlock code.



My rights to cancel mean the termination should be immediate and will be deemed to be effective 24 Hours after the sending of this email. Please ensure that any sum prepaid on my account up to this time and date is also refunded.




Regards





You Name