Tmobile price increase

anna2007

Artur - I understand what you're saying, but I'm not sure a collective notice of cancellation would achieve anything - these are individual consumer contracts - I think the onus is on each individual to give notice to cancel.

The best way, in the short term, to get through to them, depending on what stage you're at, is:

Give notice to cancel your contract before 9 May, or

If you've reached the end of the escalation process with EE - get your application into CISAS. A group application to CISAS would probably be rejected - besides, someone mentioned on here that it costs EE £hundreds for each individual case referred to CISAS.

I would, however, be interested in a group action against them in court - I don't have a legal background so don't even know if this is possible or what might be achieved by this - but I think this is way down the line anyway, we have to see how it all pans out in the weeks to follow...

anna2007

arturbdg wrote: »

Also I am quite sure that there are quite a lot of people who would be keen to go for it but they don't have time, are afraid or don't know how to stand up to T-Mobile.

Artur

It's understandable if some customers don't want to take T-Mobile on - but if they do what's been suggested (e.g. post #403), this needn't take up too much time, or prove too stressful, and may well be enough to win

Chimper

anna2007 wrote: »

Artur - I understand what you're saying, but I'm not sure a collective notice of cancellation would achieve anything - these are individual consumer contracts - I think the onus is on each individual to give notice to cancel.

The best way, in the short term, to get through to them, depending on what stage you're at, is:

Give notice to cancel your contract before 9 May, or

If you've reached the end of the escalation process with EE - get your application into CISAS. A group application to CISAS would probably be rejected - besides, someone mentioned on here that it costs EE £hundreds for each individual case referred to CISAS.

I would, however, be interested in a group action against them in court - I don't have a legal background so don't even know if this is possible or what might be achieved by this - but I think this is way down the line anyway, we have to see how it all pans out in the weeks to follow...

I wonder if it's possible to do a bit of both.

These are individual contracts and if everyone can take their case to CISAS then it will cost T-Mobile for each complaint. Whether this will sway T-Mobile is another thing. Whatever the outcome of each CISAS complaint, it is only binding on T-Mobile so we can still take legal action.

If a group action is possible, then customers that might not have to time or inclination to push it to the limit might also jump on board. Ideally we would need legal advice on this, but if the group is large enough it might be worth the cost.

anna2007

Artur - I've been thinking about something else you mentioned in one of your PM's - it's to do with the way the price increase has been calculated.

The increase on my price plans has been calculated on the discounted monthly plan charge, inclusive of VAT. If I calculate the % increase on the monthly charge, excluding VAT, it works out at 3.95%.

Given that T-Mobile pays the VAT over to the taxman, does this not mean that T-Mobile are profiting on the VAT element and the customer has effectively been hit with a price increase well above RPI??

Obviously, this is separate from the arguement over the relevant RPI rate (and I don't want to confuse the issue) - but any thoughts on what the implications of this might be (if any!)?

And would HMRC be interested in T-Mobile apparently profiting on the VAT element? Was thinking of sending them an enquiry to get their view on it?

arturbdg

anna2007 wrote: »

Artur - I've been thinking about something else you mentioned in one of your PM's - it's to do with the way the price increase has been calculated.

The increase on my price plans has been calculated on the discounted monthly plan charge, inclusive of VAT. If I calculate the % increase on the monthly charge, excluding VAT, it works out at a 3.95%.

Given that T-Mobile pays the VAT over to the taxman, does this not mean that T-Mobile are profiting on the VAT element and the customer has effectively been hit with a price increase well above 3.3%??

Obviously, this is separate from the arguement over the relevant RPI rate (and I don't want to confuse the issue) - but any thoughts on what the implications of this might be (if any!)?

And would HMRC be interested in T-Mobile apparently profiting on the VAT element?

I have not really been looking into the VAT element but many of T-Mobile customers stayed with T-Mobile only due to the fact that they have received a discount which ultimately made their monthly payment such and such.

If T-Mobile increase the price before the discount is applied then any T-Mobile customer that does have a discount is hit with a price increase above the RPI.

The fact that price increase relates to basic monthly price is mentioned on the website but the fact that it is calculated as it is put any customer that stayed with them and received a discount is at serious disadvantage and personally I don't think that this is a way to keep your customers with you.

arturbdg

Chimper wrote: »

I wonder if it's possible to do a bit of both.

These are individual contracts and if everyone can take their case to CISAS then it will cost T-Mobile for each complaint. Whether this will sway T-Mobile is another thing. Whatever the outcome of each CISAS complaint, it is only binding on T-Mobile so we can still take legal action.

If a group action is possible, then customers that might not have to time or inclination to push it to the limit might also jump on board. Ideally we would need legal advice on this, but if the group is large enough it might be worth the cost.

I think that taking a legal action would be worth a shot, many of us received a letter that we should legal advice. With information at hand we can clearly prove that T-Mobile increased the price above the RPI.

Even if we would have to pay for someone to take the case then if you spread the cost around big number of people then it would be insignificant and as someone mentioned going to court by yourself will cost you £20 or something and the price increase is less than that so single case is not exactly worth the money just to prove the point.

Now if group action would be possible then the cost would be insignificant and please bear in mind that in the past Orange made a mistake of that kind and they only allowed people who requested to leave and scratched the price increase so in the end those who did not take any action were left without a choice and I am inclined to think that this will be the case now - T-Mobile made a mistake and they stalling it now to get past the point where people can cancel to admit the fault.

Based on the circumstances (every single intent to leave without penalty ended the same - ie. seek legal advice) it should be possible to do a group action based on that case even for people that did not went through all the process - I think.

Anyone got access to a solicitor??

Mav1874

I have been watching and reading this thread with great interest. I've already emailed and written to T-Mobile, I emailed the exec office, Olaf, Jackie and Pippa on 18/04 then chased twice since and had the usual one of the team will come back to you in 7 days response to each email. We are 13 days down the line and I have had no response yet. Thanks to Bananatag, I know that each email was opened & read, the time it was opened & read, the fact it was opened & read in Hatfield and I could even give the IP address, but wont! So I know they are ignoring me. I am still at them though.
My question is what do you guys think will happen after 9th, everyone refers to this as a significant date which it obviously is as T-Mob want to keep this under wraps until after that date so that any customer who hasnt requested cancellation can no longer do so. However, do you think after 9th they may reconsider their position. They seem to have tied themselves in a lot of knots with so many different responses, ah we used January. we used average, we "anticipated" (guessed) which is the worst of the lot, no business would ever "guess" something so significant. Clearly they based everything on the Orange increase done the month before. So do you think once the 9th has passed they will take stock of the amount they will earn from the increase and what they stand to lose from CISAS etc or do you think they will maintain these ridiculous stances.
Guessing is not something which stands up well in court or from any legal standpoint or perspective when in relation to areas of a contract. So they are on shaky ground going with that.

arturbdg

Mav1874 wrote: »

I have been watching and reading this thread with great interest. I've already emailed and written to T-Mobile, I emailed the exec office, Olaf, Jackie and Pippa on 18/04 then chased twice since and had the usual one of the team will come back to you in 7 days response to each email. We are 13 days down the line and I have had no response yet. Thanks to Bananatag, I know that each email was opened & read, the time it was opened & read, the fact it was opened & read in Hatfield and I could even give the IP address, but wont! So I know they are ignoring me. I am still at them though.
My question is what do you guys think will happen after 9th, everyone refers to this as a significant date which it obviously is as T-Mob want to keep this under wraps until after that date so that any customer who hasnt requested cancellation can no longer do so. However, do you think after 9th they may reconsider their position. They seem to have tied themselves in a lot of knots with so many different responses, ah we used January. we used average, we "anticipated" (guessed) which is the worst of the lot, no business would ever "guess" something so significant. Clearly they based everything on the Orange increase done the month before. So do you think once the 9th has passed they will take stock of the amount they will earn from the increase and what they stand to lose from CISAS etc or do you think they will maintain these ridiculous stances.
Guessing is not something which stands up well in court or from any legal standpoint or perspective when in relation to areas of a contract. So they are on shaky ground going with that.

I am quite sure (would love to say confident lol) that someone will benefit from the problem and it won't be EE.There are major discrepancies in their actions and literally they became victims of their own manipulations.

Think about it in that way - one entity can't say A today and B tomorrow about the same case which they did.

I only mentioned it to anna2007 for now and want to keep it that way, mainly because for T-Mobile customers to benefit the questions need to be asked in a specific order. With that in mind it would be good to have a reporter or solicitor on our side that could ask the questions

ruflonger

I talked to again CISAS today, as I wanted to confirm non communication would be termed as deadlock. They confirmed again based on the information provided that it was a case they would take on. The advise was to contact T-Mobile again and tell them I had contacted CICAS and if I did not get a response after that that could be taken as deadlock.

I have emailed Exec Office and I rang T-Mobile again (mistake). Went through the whole thing again and stated I wanted a letter or email to confirm that they would not change their stance on the plan increase. They started quoting the post Oct 30 2012 t&c’s, I stated that my contract started before pre Oct 30 2012 and at this point I was transferred to ‘accounts’. I went through the whole thing again and again they started quoting post Oct 30 2012 t&c’s, I said I had started my contract pre Oct 30 2012 t&c’s which were on their website. She then told me I need to go back to the company through whom I took the contract and get the terms and conditions from them. I stated I was unimpressed that she was not accepting that the t&c’s published on their website were not acceptable as I have a T-Mobile contract these should apply. She told me I was told that originally and I told her that she had better check my previous calls the non-existent letters and one email because at no point was I told that in any communications with them.

I have now contacted third party through whom I got the contract to supply what will be the same terms and conditions from T-Mobile I would suspect

powerful_Rogue

Superb email back from EE today!

Dear Mr,
The written notice that was issued in early April 2013 was sent without knowledge of what the actual March RPI figure would be as this was not due to be published until 16 April 2013. This was a risk that we took as a business in anticipating the RPI figure for March, if it had been lower than expected our customer's would have been entitled to cancel their contracts but as this is not the case cancellation of your contract without penalty is declined.

Please be advised that a deadlock letter will not be issued with regard to this matter.

Whilst I understand this is not the outcome you requested, I trust I have explained the reasons behind this decision.

Yours sincerely

Matthew Robson
Executive Office, EE

Cant believe they admit to talking a "business risk"! Pretty annoyed they have refused to issue me with a deadlock letter! Will chase this up with them!