Tmobile price increase

Lifes_Grand_Plan

I love the absolute cop out of "please feel free to speak to CAB" when they know CAB are so stretched that all they will do is tell you to go to small claims, again passing the buck until you get so tired of it you just give up.

I agree as above though, T-Mobile can do anything they want and it will be "a business decision".... even changing the toilet roll to double quilted is a business decision if it means the staff are happier and spend less time off work with sore backsides.... on that basis, CISAS won't rule on anything T-Mobile (or any other CP's) do ever!!!

RandomCurve

gjchester wrote: »

Minor point but until proven in a court it's not an illegal rise, just one you feel is illegal.

If decided by CISAS/Small Claims court that the 3.3% rise is permitted then it's not an illegal rise and the fee request and amount is valid. Until proven one way or another its still not clear what the permitted rise is.

You have taken that out of context. The illegal bit relates to the fact that TM have charged me a termination for issuing a PAC code (which has not been used) when I have only ever asked for a PAC code to be issued PENALTY FREE TO ME i.e. an unsolicited good/Service.

RandomCurve

arturbdg wrote: »

Quite interesting response that I have received from CISAS:

Further to the acceptance of your application in the aboce case, the company has objected to your application being dealt with by CISAS. We referred this matter to a CISAS adjudicator who stated the following:

'This case should be withdrawn. The increase in RPI is a business decision which CISAS cannot consider. Further, CISAS cannot consider whether there has been a breach of contract as asserted, as this cannot be reviewed without also examining the price increase. The issues cannot be separated therefore the claim is outside the scope of the scheme.'

Unfortunately we will be unable to help you in this matter as your complaint concerns business decision taken by the company you are complaining about. Business decision fall outside the scope of our scheme and we have no power to deal with a complaint of this nature.

In light of the aboce we have no option to withdraw your claim from adjudication.

We suggest you contact your local Citizen's Advice Bureau who may be able to advise you how to pursue your complaint further.

We are sorry we cannot be of further assistance on this occasion

Now there need advice on how to progress

Artur

Did you put your claim in based on the rate used? If so I did warn in my posts a few pages back (#946) that TM will do something like this as this is similar to what they did with the Orange contracts that went to CISAS.

Does anybody know if you can put in a fresh claim based on unfair contract terms, or can you only approach CISAS once?

Guys_Dad

arturbdg wrote: »

Quite interesting response that I have received from CISAS:



Now there need advice on how to progress

Artur

It seems to me that CISAS have misunderstood your point, and you should write back informing them of this.

It is NOT the business decision of raising the charges by RPI that is the complaint. You accept that this is within the t&c.

It is the fact that they have breached the t&c and it is simply on the breach that you are referring that to CISAS. You then explain the breach as you see it - that the network has exceeded the amount in the t&c that they have the right so to do.

You then ask that this narrow point should be referred back for reconsideration.

anna2007

arturbdg wrote: »

Quite interesting response that I have received from CISAS:



Now there need advice on how to progress

Artur

What a complete nonsense! EVERYTHING T-Mobile does stems from the business decisions that they make - it must be very quiet at the CISAS offices...

Oh well, at least I know already what the result of the "adjudication" will be for my own complaint, at least for the part relating to breach of contract.

Artur - could I ask, did you also complain re: the fairness of the contract term and/or the poor customer service received? I included both of these issues in my complaint, so assume my case is proceeding on the basis of one or both? I have a feeling it's because of the 'poor customer service' issue - the contract term was, after all, the result of a business decision to write it into the t&c's :mad:

RandomCurve

Barnicle_Fiend wrote: »

I suggest we make a list of everyone fighting this and start to respond to things as a collective.

We could start with a letter to Ofcom explaining that t-mobile are successfully leaning on the CISAS to drop legitimate cases, a complaint against the CISAS to their parent body & a letter to the CISAS requesting further explanation of why any business decisions by t-mobile should prevent them adjudicating over a contract interpretation disagreement - which is their entire purpose.

Totally agree the "collective" point. But don't bank on OFCOM.

They are aware that T-Mobile is leaning on CISAS (see my posts #957 (point 3) and #980 (last paragraph). And they say that is not their concern. I did point out that CISAS are appointed by Ofcom, but they just said you need to take it up with CISAS.

So absolutely no help what so ever!

The only way to get this sorted is to get it into the media, and so far attempts to have a "mass email campaign" have not gone well. My first call for everyone to email elicited 50 emails, and the second call just 16!

We need a co-ordinated campaign where we ensure Ofcom is challenged EVERY DAY and that the media is always copied in(when I've spoken to the media they always seem a lot more interested in stories concerning the ineffectiveness of Ofcom than anything else).

Maybe a distribution as follows:

1. Olaf Swantee
2. Graham Howells (Ofcom)
3. CISAS
4. OFT
5. Four relevant MPs
6. two newspapers*
7. two online journals*
8. two TV news broadcasters*

*if we obtain phone numbers we can take it in turns of phoning everyday to see how their investigation is going!

How we ensure we get 100s of people to respond though I just don't know - any suggestions out there?

Don't Get Mad Get EEven

d123

anna2007 wrote: »

What a complete nonsense! EVERYTHING T-Mobile does stems from the business decisions that they make - it must be very quiet at the CISAS offices...

Oh well, at least I know already what the result of the "adjudication" will be for my own complaint, at least for the part relating to breach of contract.

Artur - could I ask, did you also complain re: the fairness of the contract term and/or the poor customer service received? I included both of these issues in my complaint, so assume my case is proceeding on the basis of one or both? I have a feeling it's because of the 'poor customer service' issue - the contract term was, after all, the result of a business decision to write it into the t&c's :mad:

My CISAS appeal was on the basis of the increase being above the RPI at the time of notification and T-Mobiles refusal to allow termination as allowed in the contract.

I've had an answer this afternoon from CISAS, so who knows what is happening (though I suspect T-Mobile/EE have exerted heavy pressure on CISAS to refuse adjudication and will eventually win).

From today's email:

The subject of your complaint is unusual to CISAS and therefore has been escalated to the highest level at IDRS Ltd for a final decision as to whether the subject of your complaint falls within the CISAS remit. We hope you can appreciate that we want to ensure that the decision we take is the right one.

gjchester

arturbdg wrote: »

Now there need advice on how to progress

The only realistic option is to now cancel, pay the early termination fee then claim it thought the small claims court.

Barnicle_Fiend wrote: »

I'm happy to pitch in and take t-mobile to court collectively.

I may be wrong but I believe there is no such thing in UK law, your talking about a something like a US Class Action Suit.
My understanding of UK law is someone would need to take it to county court track to set a precedent. However if you lose in a county court (unlike the small claims court) you may be liable for the winning party's legal fee's

RandomCurve wrote: »

You have taken that out of context. The illegal bit relates to the fact that TM have charged me a termination for issuing a PAC code (which has not been used) when I have only ever asked for a PAC code to be issued PENALTY FREE TO ME i.e. an unsolicited good/Service.

Sorry your right, I was mixing you up with Barnacle Fiend who said he had cancelled.

There should be no charge for a PAC, the final fee is chargeable after you use it. The only thing I can think of is you've managed to issue a cancel notice after the PAC, thus cancelling the PAC and it's down (rightly or wrongly) as a early termination fee.

RandomCurve

As a start to a campaign can everyone send the below to Ofcom?


[EMAIL="ed.vaizey.mp@parliament.uk"]ed.vaizey.mp@parliament.uk[/EMAIL],
[EMAIL="graham.howell@ofcom.org.uk"]graham.howell@ofcom.org.uk[/EMAIL],
[EMAIL="watchdog@bbc.co.uk"]watchdog@bbc.co.uk[/EMAIL],
[EMAIL="eevenrandomcurve@gmail.com"]eevenrandomcurve@gmail.com[/EMAIL]


In regards to Ofcom reference 1234851904 I want to complain about the manner in which T-Mobile (EE) has applied its T&Cs in its 2013 price rise


Just a short distribution list. I will monitor how many emails are sent (2 so far) and post a running total on the forum. I have a more detailed (and critical) email for Ofcom which I will post up tomorrow night for comments and then post a final version on Friday.

re post #997 any suggestions for a wider distribution list?

d123

RandomCurve wrote: »

As a start to a campaign can everyone send the below to Ofcom?


[EMAIL="ed.vaizey.mp@parliament.uk"]ed.vaizey.mp@parliament.uk[/EMAIL],
[EMAIL="graham.howell@ofcom.org.uk"]graham.howell@ofcom.org.uk[/EMAIL],
[EMAIL="watchdog@bbc.co.uk"]watchdog@bbc.co.uk[/EMAIL],
[EMAIL="eevenrandomcurve@gmail.co.uk"]eevenrandomcurve@gmail.co.uk[/EMAIL]


In regards to Ofcom reference 1234851904 I want to complain about the manner in which T-Mobile (EE) has applied its T&Cs in its 2013 price rise


Just a short distribution list. I will monitor how many emails are sent (2 so far) and post a running total on the forum. I have a more detailed (and critical) email for Ofcom which I will post up tomorrow night for comments and then post a final version on Friday.

re post #997 any suggestions for a wider distribution list?

I have added your OFCOM wording to my latest reply to CISAS, and have cc'ed OFCOM but its a direct reply to a CISAS email containing a lot of personal info so haven't CC'ed it to the rest of the list.