D Day for Benefits Claimants as "nastiest" party has it's way

grizzly1911

Conrad wrote: »

Classic example of the toxic entitlment mindset which dumbs everything down and causes people to not plan and take responsibility.

How about having a big emmergency fund set aside, plus insurance to help one through illness / accidents? It's what I did. It's what millions of us do.


This whole entitlment mindset is what's gone so wrong with Brtiain since Labour.

Over on discussion time someone just claimed having to walk 10 miles to a job is just out of the question yet I know old boys that walked / cycled further than this to work. Once again people seem to think they need to be handed a a life on a plate.

Perhaps they don't earn enough to have a "big emergency fund" or to afford to pay insurance.

Many self employed people live on tight margins and do not have the income to do it.

The cycling or walking to work 10 miles in bare feet adage is just dandy, just as long as it doesn't apply to the individual making it.

There is a difference to hopping on bike and taking a nice weekend ride it is different to have to do it 5,6,7 days a week in all weathers for the average person. I do appreciate some individuals would derive "perverse" pleasure from doing it though.

Percy1983

It just makes sense doesn't it, the more we push the idea work=reward the better.

If you don't work, fair enough warm shelter and food is fine, you want more then work for it.

The_White_Horse

my friend's father cycled 30 miles to work and back a day (15 each way) for over 30 years.

if there are no jobs where you live, move to where their are jobs.

grizzly1911

The_White_Horse wrote: »

my friend's father cycled 30 miles to work and back a day (15 each way) for over 30 years.

if there are no jobs where you live, move to where their are jobs.

Did he bang his head on wall for an encore.

Move with what exactly?

smartn

grizzly1911 wrote: »

Perhaps they don't earn enough to have a "big emergency fund" or to afford to pay insurance.

Many self employed people live on tight margins and do not have the income to do it.

The cycling or walking to work 10 miles in bare feet adage is just dandy, just as long as it doesn't apply to the individual making it.

There is a difference to hopping on bike and taking a nice weekend ride it is different to have to do it 5,6,7 days a week in all weathers for the average person. I do appreciate some individuals would derive "perverse" pleasure from doing it though.

Cycling 10 miles to work and back each day is really not that big a deal once you get used to it (I do 7 each way but 10 really wouldn't make that big a difference). I have cycled through the winter apart from snow or when the roads are very icy and dangerous. If i was desperate for a job and needed the money rather being handed it on a plate I would do this without a shadow of a doubt. I actually enjoy my ride to work most days!

grizzly1911

smartn wrote: »

Cycling 10 miles to work and back each day is really not that big a deal once you get used to it (I do 7 each way but 10 really wouldn't make that big a difference). I have cycled through the winter apart from snow or when the roads are very icy and dangerous. If i was desperate for a job and needed the money rather being handed it on a plate I would do this without a shadow of a doubt. I actually enjoy my ride to work most days!

Are you average?

I know my wife does 6 miles + reach way regularly, in the summer, but it takes it's toll. It is part of her exercise regime and she has always liked cycling and has both a road and hybrid. Both good, but not top end, quality. The hybrid is used for going to work because it takes the poor roads. I have to say safety is my biggest concern as the road surfaces are appalling and unlit.

I do accept once you get into the routine it gets "easier". If you enjoy it that is half the battle.

MS1950

The ‘source’ of Schapps extraordinary claims about Incapacity Benefit over the weekend

Over the weekend Conservative Chairman Grant Schapps was busy giving interviews claiming that almost 900,000 claimants had withdrawn their claims rather than undergo the DWP’s ‘Work Capability Assessment’

One link was posted on here as the ‘The Miracle of St George’ thread with the headline “900,000 choose to come off sickness benefit ahead of tests”:

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/4525577

while this other link makes it clear that Schapps was the source of what even the Telegraph describes as “a startlingly high number - more than one third of all such claimants”:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/conservative/9962986/Grant-Shapps-Ill-plot-Tory-election-victory-from-the-pub.html

Common sense said it was improbable (whatever one’s views on welfare) but now the source of this “a startlingly high number” seems clear.

Table 1a in the excel spreadsheet on this DWP link gives figures for the overall caseload and status of Employment Support Allowance (the Incapacity Benefit replacement) claims annually, quarterly and monthly from October 2008 to May 2012:

http://research.dwp.gov.uk/asd/workingage/index.php?page=esa_wca

A column called ‘Closed before assessment’ shows that since October 2008 (out of an overall caseload of around 2.5 million) roughly 20 thousand claims each month are closed before they reach the stage of full assessment.

What Schapps has done is to take the cumulative total of these monthly figures from October 2008 to May 2012 (878,300) to arrive at his claim - peddled to a receptive media - that 900,000 choose to come off sickness benefit ahead of tests.

However, what anyone with any experience of the labour market or an iota of honesty would realize (I’m not sure if Schapps has either), is that these monthly figures for claims that ended before they were called to assessment are part of the normal ‘churn’ of such claims.

If someone has a serious accident or develops a illness – if they are in work they will receive ‘Statutory Sick Pay’ for 6 months after which they would need to claim ESA – and if they were unemployed they would need to claim ESA immediately as they could no longer sign on as ‘available for work’ to get JSA.

But people recover from such things (or die) and so their claim ends before the bureaucratic machinery of the DWP call them in for an assessment (there is a big backlog).
[FONT=&quot]
And the only research into ‘Closed or withdrawn ESA claims’ (conducted by DWP) concluded:[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]“Customers reported a number of reasons why their ESA claims had ended before being assessed: for some this was a conscious decision, for others it was less so. Many people taking part in the research reported that their health condition had improved and their claim for ESA was no longer relevant: they either pro-actively told Jobcentre Plus they wanted to withdraw their ESA claim, or stopped sending in medical certificates or did not return the ESA50 form in the knowledge that Jobcentre Plus would close their claim”

[/FONT] [FONT=&quot]http://statistics.dwp.gov.uk/asd/asd5/rports2011-2012/rrep762.pdf (page 41)[/FONT]

None of which supports Schapps deliberate deceit that this cumulative 878,300 were long term claimants who suddenly decided they were ‘better’ when they were called in for a test (or justifies the sneering comments about ‘miraculous' recoveries that some posted on this site).

We are (sadly) used to politicians ‘spinning’ statistics to suit their purposes but I would suggest that this goes beyond ‘spin’ and is such a misrepresentation and distortion of the truth that it is better described as a deliberate lie.

Conrad

grizzly1911 wrote: »

Perhaps they don't earn enough to have a "big emergency fund" or to afford to pay insurance.

Many self employed people live on tight margins and do not have the income to do it.

The cycling or walking to work 10 miles in bare feet adage is just dandy, just as long as it doesn't apply to the individual making it.

There is a difference to hopping on bike and taking a nice weekend ride it is different to have to do it 5,6,7 days a week in all weathers for the average person. I do appreciate some individuals would derive "perverse" pleasure from doing it though.

One of my wife's uncles used to cycle 100 miles per day round trip. Sometimes he'd even crash at work overnight.

It's this can - do dignified approach to sorting ones own destiny.

Before going self employed one of the first rules is to save a large emmergency fund and also consider insurance.
The point is we never hear from the great silent responsible lot that do plan for adversity.
My own example was the mortgage crash from about mid 2007 - had we not saved and sacrificed over years I too would have been one holding thier hand out for money and expecting others to sort my life. All too easy for people to go that route and milk sympathy.

I meet S/E folk who've not planned properly, for example they buy expensive dogs but then cannot fix the van when it brakes down.

Welfare is a last resort net for the few that fall on hard times and not the vast entitlment lifestyle it's become which has terrible detriment on the lives of some 2 millkion kids that have thier horizons dimmed by bad role models.

Conrad

grizzly1911 wrote: »

Are you average?

I know my wife does 6 miles + reach way regularly, in the summer, but it takes it's toll. It is part of her exercise regime and she has always liked cycling and has both a road and hybrid. Both good, but not top end, quality. The hybrid is used for going to work because it takes the poor roads. I have to say safety is my biggest concern as the road surfaces are appalling and unlit.

I do accept once you get into the routine it gets "easier". If you enjoy it that is half the battle.

Surely society, in particular it's children are served better by a tone whereby we all have to strive and yes sometimes make sacrifices and tough it out in order to get by?

It's not as if we have to walk 40 miles in the heat for water each day !!!!!!!

How is the entitlment mindset I see everywhere, any good in the long run?

We will deffo fall away as a nation if we persist down the mass entitlment / irresponisbility / no need to strive and put yourself out road.

smartn

grizzly1911 wrote: »

Are you average?

I know my wife does 6 miles + reach way regularly, in the summer, but it takes it's toll. It is part of her exercise regime and she has always liked cycling and has both a road and hybrid. Both good, but not top end, quality. The hybrid is used for going to work because it takes the poor roads. I have to say safety is my biggest concern as the road surfaces are appalling and unlit.

I do accept once you get into the routine it gets "easier". If you enjoy it that is half the battle.

I am very average.... 45 years old and about 2 stone overweight! Cycling 10 miles each way to work with a little practice is acheivable pretty much by anyone. My 7 mile journey takes about 30 minutes. It would take about 20 to 25 in a car (city traffic!)