Flight delay compensation, all other EU airlines

psarinuk

Hi all,
Posting after a long time (Covid break), I hope all forumites are well. Hope this is the right forum for flight delay compensation claim with Virgin Atlantic (VA) and apologies for slightly longer post.

I was due to travel with family from London Heathrow to Delhi on 25th July'22 via VS302 but VA emailed us that the flight was cancelled on 20th July'22 citing "recent capacity restrictions at Heathrow and to support overall operational resilience".

Our travel agent rebooked us for 24 hours later for 26th July with VA again for no extra cost.

Upon checking the advice at MSE, I submitted a EC Compensation Application form with Resolver website on 24th Aug'22.
VA have now declined my claim citing the cause of cancellation as ‘extraordinary circumstances’ beyond the control of Virgin Atlantic.

We believe your particular claim falls under the category of:
 

Number	Category	Incident
15	Airport Closure	Closure or restrictions either the airport of arrival or the airport of departure non-security and non-meteorological reasons

 
Virgin Atlantic complies with the obligations set out by Regulation EC 261/2004.  Article 5(3) of the Regulation states the right to compensation is waived if the cancellation of the flight is caused by extraordinary circumstances which could not have been avoided even if all reasonable measures had been taken.

Do I have any further course of action from here? Has anyone else had any success due to this year's flight cancellations at Heathrow?

Many thanks for all replies in advance.

eskbanker

The CAA were updating a page with flights cancelled due to Heathrow restrictions which they categorised as extraordinary circumstances, but stopped updating this shortly before your flight, although the CAA did see the cancellation of the same flight on 22 July as being in that category:

https://www.caa.co.uk/passengers/resolving-travel-problems/delays-and-cancellations/making-a-claim/am-i-entitled-to-compensation/

Maybe worth contacting the CAA to seek their guidance?

Or you could push Virgin for a more specific answer than "recent capacity restrictions at Heathrow and to support overall operational resilience", as the former may be extraordinary circumstances but the latter wouldn't be....

Batch2k

Hello learned MSE members.

Please can you tell me if it's worth pursuing this delay compensation rejection with Aer Lingus. It feels a bit generic in reason to me, but that may be wishful thinking.

Some background, flight was Toronto ->LGW via Dublin. We were booked direct onto Westjet but they broke their plane and they rebooked us onto the AL fight (2 days later) as a partner/agreement airline.

The flight Toronto->Dublin fine

The 6:30 flight Dublin->LGW cancelled

The quickest alternative was to book on to LHR (arrived 2:30) and Uber to LGW (arrived 4:30 ish) to get car (Uber is being refunded). The LHR flight was arranged directly by Aer Lingus.


The rejection reason given its as below. 

"Flight EI 230 was cancelled due to significant operational issues at airports to which we operate causing severe disruption to our network combined with the impact of very high levels of Covid 19 sickness amongst our operating crew. As such, this cancellation was due to “extraordinary circumstances” within the meaning of Regulation EC 261/2004, and consequently, no compensation is due in respect of this cancellation."

eskbanker

Batch2k said:

"Flight EI 230 was cancelled due to significant operational issues at airports to which we operate causing severe disruption to our network combined with the impact of very high levels of Covid 19 sickness amongst our operating crew. As such, this cancellation was due to “extraordinary circumstances” within the meaning of Regulation EC 261/2004, and consequently, no compensation is due in respect of this cancellation."

I agree with you that this sounds generic - high levels of Covid among staff aren't extraordinary circumstances, and 'significant operational issues at airports' is way too vague, in that the threshold would be demonstrating that LGW restricted slots and instructed the airline to cancel that flight.

So, worth pushing them as far as you can for a more specific answer, although escalation options are limited, given the following bizarre combination of statements on their complaints page

An Online Dispute Resolution platform has been set up by the European Commission (http://ec.europa.eu/consumers/odr/) which provides easy access to alternative dispute resolution. Please note, Aer Lingus is not currently subscribed to an approved ADR scheme therefore neither the ODR platform nor any approved ADR providers will be able to accept your complaint.

although there's always small claims court....

Batch2k

Thanks. Nothing ventured...

My next steps are:
    1. recorded letter by post to Aer Lingus setting out needing more information before progressing + plus update online case to say I've sent it 
    2. Depending on answer, complaint via flightrights Ireleand website as the regulator. Which according to the "2004_261_national_enforcement_bodies-2022-09-30.pdf" that's the correct place to do so but as you say - may be limited.

(PS. Can't post links as a new member)

If anybody thinks this is the wrong way of doing things, please let me know! I'll be doing this once the Uber £100 has been refunded in a week or so

Batch2k

Quick question, should I need to raise a complain, who do I contact. The CAA or the IAA

The journey was Toronto to Gatwick via Dublin
The delay was Dublin to Gatwick

In such a case compensation, when awarded, would be on the entire journey distance. That's clear

What isn't clear is whether the CAA or IAA pick up any complaints. I'd assume the latter given the nature of the claim, but ???

The example on the IAA site aren't clear for this case ( flightrightsDOTie/make-a-complaint/  - can't post links). They only deal with direct flights!

ellenpal

I posted in a separate thread but this probably belongs here  
Hi all, I am trying to make a claim against Sky Express for compensation. I originally reached out to their email address because resolver did not have them on the list of companies. Resolver updated about 8 weeks ago to add Sky Express so I decided to start a file with resolver then too. So far, not a single word from Sky Express. I have contacted them on Facebook and Twitter - no joy. So it is now time to escalate. This airline is based out of Athens International. I can't seem to locate any UK address for them. 

Has any one had any success reaching Sky Express? Did you use an adjudicator? If so, which one? I phoned Sky Express, which is costly because they do not have a UK number! I asked them about their adjudicator and they didn't understand what I was asking for - all they said it to email customer care (which is useless since I've emailed them 3 times over 3 months without a single acknowledgement). 

It's a large claim so I must pursue this until it's paid. I don't mind going to smalls claims but I think they must have a UK postal address - if I am not mistaken. Any advice or words of wisdom welcomed. Do I take this to CAA first? Or do I have to do this in Greece? Thank you!

psarinuk

Hi,

I replied to Virgin with the additional information from CAA website that does not list my flight cancelled from Heathrow to Delhi on 25th July as "extra ordinary circumstances", and "support overall operational resilience"  cannot be classified as extraordinary circumstances. They have again declined my claim again with following reply:

Having reviewed your claim, I’m sorry to advise that we continue to decline your claim for compensation on the grounds that the cancelation was due to extraordinary circumstances outside of Virgin Atlantic’s control.

As you are aware, the cancelation to your flight was as a result when London Heathrow required all airlines operating out of the station to reduce capacity by 15% due to congestion and queues. Unfortunately, Heathrow’s mandated capacity reduction means that we have had to cancel several services. We worked closely with all airport suppliers to limit delays/cancelations but unfortunately, we were unable to depart on time.

I certainly understand your reviews in respect to the information you have stated within EC regulation 261/2004, however we have strict parameters in regards to any monetary payments.

Guidelines on applying ‘extraordinary circumstances’ have been developed by the national enforcement bodies (NEBs) across Europe, including the UK Civil Aviation Authority.  These guidelines help to provide a clearer definition and we believe your particular claim falls under the category of

The guidelines of what is extraordinary can be found on the CAA website via the below link:

https://www.caa.co.uk/passengers/resolving-travel-problems/delays-and-cancellations/making-a-claim/am-i-entitled-to-compensation/

I realise that you will be disappointed with my response, and we sincerely regret that we have not been able to resolve your concerns to your full satisfaction. However, I hope this will not deter you from flying with us again in the future. 

I would like some advice on the next steps. As I am using Resolver, I've 2 options:
1. Escalate the case to ADR. Escalating your case to Aviation ADR means they will investigate your case against Virgin Atlantic.
2. Escalate your case to an Ombudsman or regulator. This should be used upon receipt of final response or deadlock letter.

I am not sure which one to use as next step. Kindly advise. Thanks.

eskbanker

psarinuk said:

I replied to Virgin with the additional information from CAA website that does not list my flight cancelled from Heathrow to Delhi on 25th July as "extra ordinary circumstances", and "support overall operational resilience"  cannot be classified as extraordinary circumstances. They have again declined my claim again with following reply:

Having reviewed your claim, I’m sorry to advise that we continue to decline your claim for compensation on the grounds that the cancelation was due to extraordinary circumstances outside of Virgin Atlantic’s control.

As you are aware, the cancelation to your flight was as a result when London Heathrow required all airlines operating out of the station to reduce capacity by 15% due to congestion and queues. Unfortunately, Heathrow’s mandated capacity reduction means that we have had to cancel several services. 

As I understand it, the fact that the CAA didn't list that flight was more because they stopped updating the list rather than actively continuing to consider the circumstances for each one, but I could be wrong.  If VA are moving away from the generic 'support operational resilience' and doubling down on LHR capacity restrictions then that will make it harder for you to succeed, but no harm trying if you're minded to push on!

psarinuk said:

I would like some advice on the next steps. As I am using Resolver, I've 2 options:
1. Escalate the case to ADR. Escalating your case to Aviation ADR means they will investigate your case against Virgin Atlantic.
2. Escalate your case to an Ombudsman or regulator. This should be used upon receipt of final response or deadlock letter.

I am not sure which one to use as next step. Kindly advise. Thanks.

If an ADR provider is in place then that's who to go to:

https://www.moneysavingexpert.com/travel/flight-delays/

If you flew to or from the UK and your airline's with an adjudicator, you MUST use it

The CAA, the UK's airline regulator, has been approving various alternative dispute resolution (ADR) schemes to take on cases. If your airline has signed up to one, it has to tell you when it rejects your claim – if the ADR scheme covers the flight you flew on, you MUST go to it if you want to appeal. The advantage of going to an ADR scheme is its decision is generally binding on the airline. 

psarinuk

eskbanker said:

As I understand it, the fact that the CAA didn't list that flight was more because they stopped updating the list rather than actively continuing to consider the circumstances for each one, but I could be wrong.  If VA are moving away from the generic 'support operational resilience' and doubling down on LHR capacity restrictions then that will make it harder for you to succeed, but no harm trying if you're minded to push on!

Hello eskbanker, many thanks for your continued, prompt and clear help. I even wrote to CAA and even they wanted me to pursue on my correspondence with VA and use ADR if I am unhappy with their response.