Does the law need changing vote

Nilrem

Loganfire wrote: »

When I rang around for a price on my winter tyres, a few of them said they would store them for free if I bought my tyres from them and one of the cheapest places to buy them was my main dealer who's storing them for me.

If it could be proven and I don't have any data on this but by making it law to have winter tyres on all road vehicles that it could save at least one life a year would it not be worth it? I guess it depends on how much you think a persons or a family members life costs. I have put links below to you-tube showing the differences between summer, all seasons and winter tyres.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=elP_34ltdWI

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GlYEMH10Z4s

The thing is, there are probably far more (and cheaper) ways to save a life a year than winter tyres - and if you had a law that everyone had to use them, you can pretty much bet that your local dealer wouldn't be storing them FOC (for one thing most dealerships don't have space for hundreds of sets of spare tyres, let alone the headaches that would likely come with storing them*).

General driver education about simple things like actually maintaining things that are already covered by law, or how to drive in snow/ice/rain/cold weather would probably save far more lives and be cheaper.
Things like reminding people that the legal minimum for tyres is just that, the minimum and you can replace them earlier for better traction in bad weather, and that the speed limit is a limit not a target (so to drive to the conditions).

The big problem with the cold weather isn't really the cars/equipment people are using, it's really the poor quality of a lot of people's driving, and their attitude to general car maintenance...




*Whilst they can probably do it for a few regular customers, it would require a large storage facility for all their current customers.

motorguy

Nilrem wrote: »

The thing is, there are probably far more (and cheaper) ways to save a life a year than winter tyres - and if you had a law that everyone had to use them, you can pretty much bet that your local dealer wouldn't be storing them FOC (for one thing most dealerships don't have space for hundreds of sets of spare tyres, let alone the headaches that would likely come with storing them*).

General driver education about simple things like actually maintaining things that are already covered by law, or how to drive in snow/ice/rain/cold weather would probably save far more lives and be cheaper.
Things like reminding people that the legal minimum for tyres is just that, the minimum and you can replace them earlier for better traction in bad weather, and that the speed limit is a limit not a target (so to drive to the conditions).

The big problem with the cold weather isn't really the cars/equipment people are using, it's really the poor quality of a lot of people's driving, and their attitude to general car maintenance...




*Whilst they can probably do it for a few regular customers, it would require a large storage facility for all their current customers.

Yes, you're right. There are worse 'crimes' on our roads than not running winter tyres. However, i personally would back it, as it does just make so much difference to the stability and driveability of the car.

Realistically it isnt going to happen any time soon, so this is just a forum debate.

Hypothetically, what that tyre supplier was doing was very smart - by storing the tyres 'free' he was guaranteeing you'd be back next year and he keeps your business. Could he do it for *all* his customers? No, unlikely he has the space as you say. BUT it could be a business model for somebody. Charging a couple of pounds extra for each tyre could mean they could store the tyre 'free' if they had access to a cheap barn or something for storage.

Likewise, i dont think, say a tenner for storage is going to kill anyone AND if it were 'the law' it may lead overall to better tyre maintenance as people are going to be in the tyre dealers twice a year where tyres nearing their limit can be checked, tracking offered, lights checked, exhausts checked, etc, etc.

I *think* in germany they've even taken it a step further - if you are selling a car of not matter what age, it must be sold with a brand new set of tyres fitted? Could be wrong, but i'm sure i read that somewhere.

steve-L

cubegame wrote: »

I was was just about to post the same link to prove my point, which probably means you don't understand the statistics.

Are you a tyre fitter?

:rotfl::rotfl::rotfl:

Erm, you can't post a link showing where the AVERAGE temperature NEVER drops below 12C in the UK unless you include Gibraltar ....

If you want to demonstrate your ignorance go ahead and POST MAXIMUM temperatures and pretend they are AVERAGE!

Even when its 15 degrees MAX temp during the DAY that means the road temperature is well below this at 08:00 to 09:00 ....
and well into mid-day until it might start to warm with the sun.

MetOffice_Camborne,_Devon wrote:

<5 5-7.5 7.5-10 >10 Count
Nov 1 1 26 6 34
Dec 2 9 23 0 34
Jan 6 16 12 0 34
Feb 4 19 11 0 34
Mar 0 13 21 0 34

In 34 YEARS of recording data at Cambourne the AVERAGE (between min and max) has NEVER been warm enough for SUMMER tyres to be better than winter tyres from Nov-Mar.

http://www.metoffice.gov.uk/climate/uk/stationdata/

I selected the warmest station data I could....?
Do you live somewhere warmer than Devon?

If I repeat this with MINIMUM average... its obviously lower....
Air temp minima are around 05:00 ... road temp takes several hours to warm up....

motorguy

Cknocker wrote: »

This is probably the most idiotic thread ever - lots of things affect the stopping performance of cars, but for some reason some people seem to think that ALL people REGARDLESS of where they live and what they use their cars for should go to the expense of fitting winter tyres and this should be enforced by LAW - GET A LIFE!

Why not insist that no car is allowed on the road without ABS?

The police have a hard enough job ensuring people have adequate tread on their tyres, let alone this.

My worry is the people screaming for this to be made law actually can't drive and have regular accidents because they are driving too fast for the conditions. LEARN TO DRIVE!

Whose screaming on here? You do know this is just a forum chat right?

And as for not being implementable, germany do it successfully?

Loganfire

I think there are a few people in this forum thread that are scared of any possible thought of change hence there negative to other people in this thread. It takes me back to when I was a kid and the amount of adults saying they would not wear a seat belt even if it broke the law, now look at them wearing there seat belts and would never dream of not using it my parents being one of them.

Unless you never used winter tyres then I guessing you don't know how much safer they are.

steve-L

Funny thing, Oxford was met office data going back to 1853
In the 159 years for which there are records the Average Minimum Temperature (average of the minimum for each day over the month) has for the Months November through March only been higher than 7.5C ONCE in November 1994.



Even a cutoff of 5 degrees the Average Minimum Temperature for the Months November through March only exceeds this on 48 months over 159 years!

Joe_Horner

steve-L wrote: »

Its a no brainer....
The majority of accidents in Winter take place when people's stopping distance has 'magically' decreased. Not due to snow/ice.... simply the change in stopping distance ...

I agree, a no brainer.

Teach people to drive to the !!!!!!! conditions and they won't get caught out by longer stopping distances. It's cold, it's maybe wet and it'll take you longer to stop. So allow for it.

Then take anyone who has an accident on not-snow / not-ice roads and blames it on lack of grip/ wrong tyres and shove their licence up their tailpipe until they accept it wasn't the road, it was their misjudgement of it.

Incidentally, I'd tend to apply that to anyone who "just couldn't stop" (always through no fault of their own) regardless of the season :mad:



eta: That's a "NO" vote btw

Cknocker

Wow, I didn't realise I live in Devon! - I live in Camborne, which is 50 miles west of Devon. The problem with average temperatures is that they are exactly that. Down here there are days in December where it is -2 and take last year, we had days in December where the temperature hit 18 C! What days do you suggest I change my tyres?

The thing is this: - you can protest all you like that at temperatures below a certain temperature the Winter compound tyres are better - That does not make the normal tyres unsafe. I drive 20k miles a year - to date (Touch wood) I have never had an accident - are you seriously telling me my car is unsafe at the moment because it does not have winter tyres?

As for being scared of this "Law", to be quite frank I couldn't give two hoots from a personal viewpoint as I don't pay for my tyres - I just believe it is a barmy suggestion!

Loganfire

Cknocker wrote: »

Wow, I didn't realise I live in Devon! - I live in Camborne, which is 50 miles west of Devon. The problem with average temperatures is that they are exactly that. Down here there are days in December where it is -2 and take last year, we had days in December where the temperature hit 18 C! What days do you suggest I change my tyres?

The thing is this: - you can protest all you like that at temperatures below a certain temperature the Winter compound tyres are better - That does not make the normal tyres unsafe. I drive 20k miles a year - to date (Touch wood) I have never had an accident - are you seriously telling me my car is unsafe at the moment because it does not have winter tyres?

As for being scared of this "Law", to be quite frank I couldn't give two hoots from a personal viewpoint as I don't pay for my tyres - I just believe it is a barmy suggestion!

So from your point of view its a no, that all you need to say instead of bleating on about you and how you are so closed minded you are, it's only a debate on a friendly chat forum not a forum about you.

Cknocker

The point is quite simply this - the UK has a long distance from North - South with large differences in climate in different parts due to several factors including latitude, air currents, sea temperatures and sea currents.

I've just been looking at reviews on Winter Tyres and their stopping distances are worst than the summer tyres at temperatures above 7 deg c. Is any government really going to legislate that "Thou Shalt Make Your Car More Dangerous To Drive" - because this is exactly what they would be doing in parts of the country, if they were to bring in such a law.