Green Deal MSE Guide Discussion

UseLessEnergy

Your examples don't meet the golden rule so you wouldn't be offered a Green Deal Plan.

A good assessor or provider should discuss this with you. They may suggest you do loft and external wall only. This would offer you a good level of insulation and I would estimate you'd achieve a good energy saving.

Most of the external wall would attract funding via eco so your costs would be far less than your top-line projections. At this point you installation plan would probably meet the golden rule and your saving would outweigh your monthly payments.

But you don't get your solar pv.

Based on all the facts it would then be up to you to make your decision as to whether you wanted to go ahead or not. If so , the Provider would talk to you about the installation arrangements.

If you decided not to bother the process would end there.

nosuperwoman

Hi
I am interested in the GD but am beginning to think I need to compare it to just getting a new boiler and a few tweaks in the glazing/draught proofing.

One thing does puzzle me - I understand that the repayments would be made via fuel bills so the 'golden rule' is ensured but my boiler runs on oil so who would I pay and how would we/they know money was being saved. Mind you, I pay £100 a month for oil so I think savings would be a given

new_owner

Unless there is zero profit involved in the EPC and work involved then this will fall flat.

There should be no link between the epc assessor and the company doing the work as all thats going to happen is the numbers will be tweaked.

No intrest on the loan and no early penalty for paying of early.

I have yet to see anything that can show any benefit in this.

Richie-from-the-Boro

huggermugger wrote: »

The article makes no mention of the position of those in shared ownership properties. From my own research it would appear that the consent of the landlord (usually a housing association) will not be needed unless the individual lease states that consent is required for the particular improvement. Typically, consent is needed for external/structural alterations eg double glazing and external cladding but not for internal work such as boilers etc.

However, am still unclear about how they will feel about the debt which afaik although not secured on the house does run with it and therefore would in a sense be "taken on" by any new lessee/owner. Or maybe I'm not understanding it correctly.

- a [lessee] shared ownership dwelling is for this and other purposes a mortgaged property after 21 years
- the responsibilities [for everything] are with the mortgage / rent paying owner in the case of a house
- but might well have implications for external structural alterations & cladding / roof panels, but not double glazing etc

When it comes to how GD might work with a lease agreement that attaches a debt to the 'dwellinghouse' or its electricity bill however is something that I would need specialist advice on as you would be making the next owner / tenant the garnishee of that debt.

- shared ownership responsibilities is lease variable and legally different with flats and shared common area dwellings
- what dwelling type and terms of lease agreement do you have huggermugger, and have you lived in the property more than 21 years ?

lizzyshep

How do I go about choosing a good assessor? What qualifications should they have? Is it better to choose one that is just an assessor and not a provider too, will they be more impartial? And am I right in thinking that a company who charges for the assessment is likely to be better than one that doesn't? I'm not sure why they'd do it for free! Thanks.

Johnandabby

nosuperwoman wrote: »

Hi
I am interested in the GD but am beginning to think I need to compare it to just getting a new boiler and a few tweaks in the glazing/draught proofing.

One thing does puzzle me - I understand that the repayments would be made via fuel bills so the 'golden rule' is ensured but my boiler runs on oil so who would I pay and how would we/they know money was being saved. Mind you, I pay £100 a month for oil so I think savings would be a given

Repayments taken through the electricity bills, as it's assumed that everyone has a mains electricity connection. Assuming you have insulation/heating improvements, your oil requirements would reduce but your electricity bill would increase to cover the GD repayments.

If you can afford it just pay for the works yourself - why pay the high interest rates if you can avoid it.

Johnandabby

lizzyshep wrote: »

How do I go about choosing a good assessor? What qualifications should they have? Is it better to choose one that is just an assessor and not a provider too, will they be more impartial? And am I right in thinking that a company who charges for the assessment is likely to be better than one that doesn't? I'm not sure why they'd do it for free! Thanks.

At the moment you would be lucky to find an assessor, let alone a good one... Personally I don't believe the GD qualifications are worth anything, but there isn't a catch all qualification that covers insulation, heating etc to compare against. At the moment each part of the GD package is covered by different professions, so you'll struggle to find one person who can cover everything.

Only combined assessors and providers would offer a 'free' assessment - it's not actually free, they just add the cost to the installation costs. Personally I would use an independent assessor - you then have to go out and source providers to quote for the works, but at least you can get a few quotes

epcdave

GDA are going to rely on one thing commission. The moment the Gov allowed this that's when the GD went down the pan. There are 1000s of EPC providers struggling to get maybe £50 for an EPC, they and others will see this as a chance to make more. But in reality they need to sign up to GDAO who get the work for them, they will not be happy if the assessor does not get a plan on place. It is rumored that 1000s of gas fitters will train to be GDA, training firms are saying you can earn £1000 a week, jobs are being advertised as sales jobs, not energy experts its sell sell sell. The Govt Have allowed this to help big business. Just get an EPC work it out yourself, high street suppliers will see that the GD is a con and offer a far more sensible solution.
The link provided to see if you can save money(home energy survey) proves my point, using that estimate there would be no way i could pay the loan as i would have no electric bill to pay!!

blanik

Gloucester_Lad wrote: »

Blanik said
"We have a 3yo condensing boiler, with trv on all radiators and programmable room stat - but it still suggested I would save £200 ( which is 40% of my gas bill ) by fitting a new boiler! and £20 by changing the controls"

Well, I'm not surprised you were unimpressed by the assessment. I'm an experienced EPC assessor (not a GDAdvisor) and clearly your GDA got it badly wrong. He (or she) failed to correctly identify your heating and heating control system making the assessment a complete nonsense.

Just to clarify - this was not a GDA, but the free on-line quick check that MSE suggested.

Edit - just noticed already mentioned in post #54.

Me_fishy_u_chippie

Dear fellow Threaders,

Firstly, I have no involvement in the GD at all. However, I do specialise in energy efficiency of commercial buildings. So, out of natural curiosity I am interested in the view of the "man on the Clapham omnibus", regarding the GD.

From my vantage point here in my fish bowl I would like to share a few observations.

I find it ironic that this government, whilst lauding the importance of living within ones means and not getting into an unsustainable debt spiral it is asking the neediest and financially weakest in society to errrr ....take out debt! Interesting - square that circle!

The GD is meant to provide help to those inhabiting the least energy efficient dwellings, often the poorest sections of our society IE those that most need help to address fuel poverty and ever rising energy bills.

So, if i understand this deal as Martin eruditely describes it, I'm left asking a few questions. If "Mr Poor-Pleb", takes advice and undertakes £900 of upgrades over 25 years at 10.9% he pays back a whopping £3,500. Wow, that's a lot of dosh going somewhere. Given that its loaned against a property and the average house price in the UK is £250,000 that is a USUARY rate of interest!

So, I looked into the people offering this "deal". The Green Deal Finance Co, a not-for-profit company no less. It will come as a surprise to most people that NFPCo's do make profits and in many cases these are huge! The difference to a normal company is that these companies return only "surplus" profits back into the company after "expenses and running costs, bonuses, duckponds, first class flights etc etc"

So who are the members/owners of the GDFCo? Hmmmm. Lets take a wee look.

Amongst others E.On, SSE, BG, EDF,EVO,RWE Npower wow that's most of the BIG SIX. Now, call me old fashioned, but I thought power generation companies made profits from selling MORE of their product not LESS?

But wait! I think I see whats going on here! Mr Poor-Pleb makes savings on his annual energy bill (hopefully, but no guarantees afterall, the Golden Rule refers to could, not, should or will, and anyway its not a Golden Guarantee) so, with those "savings" he repays the difference to the GDFCo who continues to fleece him for 25 years.

The difference in the loss the energy company suffers from a reduction in lowering consumption is more than handsomely compensated by the 10.9% rate for 25 years!! What a good wheeze this is - no wonder the energy companies have signed up!

In addition I also see that Goldman Sachs and HSBC are "advisors". So the not-for-profit GDFCo only returns "surplus" profit after costs are taken into account - well we all know how greedy bankers are and, lets face it, Goldman Sachs is notorious for its single minded pursuit of profit!

So fellow Threaders, please do put me on the straight and narrow if I have got this wrong. Can someone please explain to me how does Mr Poor-Pleb benefit in anyway OVER the lifetime of the deal if all his savings are repaying a loan?

Answers on a waterproof post card!

xx