Green Deal MSE Guide Discussion

lkane0

I'm keen on the GD as house was built 1890 & the 20 yr old oil boiler has broken down!
Have had the assessment done by BG, but they say we won't receive recommendations for A FEW WEEKS!
Is it worth getting another assessment, or do they all work off the same system (which BG claim has bugs in it still)?
Apart from this though, am very excited there seems to be a way i can afford to heat my home!

UseLessEnergy

Me_fishy_u_chippie wrote: »

Dear fellow Threaders,

Firstly, I have no involvement in the GD at all. However, I do specialise in energy efficiency of commercial buildings. So, out of natural curiosity I am interested in the view of the "man on the Clapham omnibus", regarding the GD.

From my vantage point here in my fish bowl I would like to share a few observations.

I find it ironic that this government, whilst lauding the importance of living within ones means and not getting into an unsustainable debt spiral it is asking the neediest and financially weakest in society to errrr ....take out debt! Interesting - square that circle!

The GD is meant to provide help to those inhabiting the least energy efficient dwellings, often the poorest sections of our society IE those that most need help to address fuel poverty and ever rising energy bills.

So, if i understand this deal as Martin eruditely describes it, I'm left asking a few questions. If "Mr Poor-Pleb", takes advice and undertakes £900 of upgrades over 25 years at 10.9% he pays back a whopping £3,500. Wow, that's a lot of dosh going somewhere. Given that its loaned against a property and the average house price in the UK is £250,000 that is a USUARY rate of interest!

So, I looked into the people offering this "deal". The Green Deal Finance Co, a not-for-profit company no less. It will come as a surprise to most people that NFPCo's do make profits and in many cases these are huge! The difference to a normal company is that these companies return only "surplus" profits back into the company after "expenses and running costs, bonuses, duckponds, first class flights etc etc"

So who are the members/owners of the GDFCo? Hmmmm. Lets take a wee look.

Amongst others E.On, SSE, BG, EDF,EVO,RWE Npower wow that's most of the BIG SIX. Now, call me old fashioned, but I thought power generation companies made profits from selling MORE of their product not LESS?

But wait! I think I see whats going on here! Mr Poor-Pleb makes savings on his annual energy bill (hopefully, but no guarantees afterall, the Golden Rule refers to could, not, should or will, and anyway its not a Golden Guarantee) so, with those "savings" he repays the difference to the GDFCo who continues to fleece him for 25 years.

The difference in the loss the energy company suffers from a reduction in lowering consumption is more than handsomely compensated by the 10.9% rate for 25 years!! What a good wheeze this is - no wonder the energy companies have signed up!

In addition I also see that Goldman Sachs and HSBC are "advisors". So the not-for-profit GDFCo only returns "surplus" profit after costs are taken into account - well we all know how greedy bankers are and, lets face it, Goldman Sachs is notorious for its single minded pursuit of profit!

So fellow Threaders, please do put me on the straight and narrow if I have got this wrong. Can someone please explain to me how does Mr Poor-Pleb benefit in anyway OVER the lifetime of the deal if all his savings are repaying a loan?

Answers on a waterproof post card!

xx

If Mr Poor-Pleb has a home which is very energy inefficient he should consider steps to remedy this which could (should) lead to considerable energy bill savings.
He can choose to finance improvements anyway he wants..Green Deal is only another option open to him...he decides. Or he might decide not to bother and use high energy levels to heat his leaky home or wear 3 jumpers and stay in a colder house.
The issue is that most people (myself included a few years back) give energy efficiency little or zero consideration when moving into a property. If that mindset could change then the issues would be less significant.

UseLessEnergy

nosuperwoman wrote: »

Hi
I am interested in the GD but am beginning to think I need to compare it to just getting a new boiler and a few tweaks in the glazing/draught proofing.

One thing does puzzle me - I understand that the repayments would be made via fuel bills so the 'golden rule' is ensured but my boiler runs on oil so who would I pay and how would we/they know money was being saved. Mind you, I pay £100 a month for oil so I think savings would be a given

The idea is that Green Deal Plan repayments would be made via your electricity bill because everyone has one

MoneyIsntEverything_2

Hi all

New to this but these forums seem full of extremely knowledgeable people so hopefully someone can help me!

We live in a 2 bedroom 1950s end of terrace with pretty efficient heating and a newish boiler. However, as it's on a main road we have considered secondary glazing (already have double) for noise reduction, and also to improve heating - you can still feel the cold near the windows. We have also been meaning to get round to having proper loft insulation.

My questions are these -
a) does the green deal cover secondary glazing over existing double glazed windows?
b) if we have, let's say £2000 upfront to spend on these improvements, is it still beneficial to go through the green deal as we don't need the loan?
c) the loans all seem to be 10 years or so - can you reduce it to 2 years if you want to? short-term would be helpful not to finish savings in one go, but don't want to leave a debt to the next home-owner or have massive interest payments...

Thanks to anyone who has the answers!

paul.jacobs

If it was a true green scheme. Yes you should pay for an independent assessment. For boiler replacement you should be able to use any gas safe registered engineer. They already have the costly gas safe accreditation. Lets face it, any cashback won't even cover a British gas inflated quote compared with a local tradesman who could easily be £1000 cheaper to install a boiler. Let alone the 20 year loan on a boiler that has a lifespan of 10-15 years, Bonkers!!!!

I am very surprised that Martin is promoting this scheme, it's a BBC Watchdog special waiting to happen

Gloucester_Lad

nosuperwoman wrote: »

Hi
I am interested in the GD but am beginning to think I need to compare it to just getting a new boiler and a few tweaks in the glazing/draught proofing.

One thing does puzzle me - I understand that the repayments would be made via fuel bills so the 'golden rule' is ensured but my boiler runs on oil so who would I pay and how would we/they know money was being saved. Mind you, I pay £100 a month for oil so I think savings would be a given

Ok nosuperwoman here's some info' that will save you a small fortune.
You are very sensible in exploring an upgrade to your home which does not include the Green Deal.
You clearly already know what improvements are required so you don't need any upfront assessment (about £100 saved there).
If you buy your new boiler from a local source I bet it'll be much cheaper than from a "Green Deal provider" who will be paying out for their "Green Deal badge" and who will be passing that cost on to you. (at least a few hundred pounds more saved).
If you go Green deal you'll pay 7% interest which over say ten years means you'll be paying out a total of twice the price of that inflated price boiler. Pay cash or borrow at lower interest from another source (that could be savings of up to a thousand).
And, you're not going to be mis-sold anything, there's no loan tied to the house making it harder to sell, should you ever decide to and you might actually find you get some bill savings.
Even with the so called "Golden Rule" within the Green Deal I'd bet your total energy bill will increase if you go, that more expensive, way.

In short you don't need the Green Deal to do what you want and there are certainly cheaper alternative ways to do it.

To answer your other question Green Deal loans are paid back through your electricity bill regardless of what upgrades you have done. Theory is fewer people default on electricity bills. But I'd hope from the above info you won't need to worry about that.

ascrooge

Before Green Deal we had Warm Front, a boiler replacement from warm front was £1,000 dearer than from a local reliable heating engineer, also at that time their was no choice which boiler could be fitted the end result was an unreliable boiler and £1,000 out of pocket. Who installed it? Carillion.
Carillion are one of the recommended installers on Green Deal!
I am very suspicious that Green Deal recommended installers may be overpriced compared to local qualified companies.
So I asked Green Deal if I could choose a local known reliable double glazing company to install the new windows
Answer. ONLY IF THEY ARE PART OF THE GREEN DEAL SCHEME!
iT'S NO GREEN DEAL FOR ME! I will source companies I trust, borrow money cheaply knowing I am in full control of the outcome.

[Deleted User]

The only measures I can make pay for themselves are loft and cavity insulation, which is presumably why they're a prerequisite before you can claim for anything else.

I already have 4" of insulation in the loft and saw little benefit, so any extra saving from putting more in just isn't worth the cost and hassle of raising the floorboards to make room for it.

As far as cavity insulation goes, there's no way I would have it done simply because CIGA seem to have got themselves a reputation for never paying out on claims. If anything goes wrong, the cost of any remedial work would make the energy savings look like peanuts. OK, so the risk may be small, but so is the chance of the house catching fire, and I wouldn't cancel my insurance on the strength of that.

I think the guy who said that this is going to be the next mis-selling scandal has hit the nail on the head. A spokesman on Radio 4 the other day was claiming that the assessments are still independent even though the assessors are also salesmen. The naivety beggars belief!

Gloucester_Lad

ascrooge wrote: »

Before Green Deal we had Warm Front, a boiler replacement from warm front was £1,000 dearer than from a local reliable heating engineer, also at that time their was no choice which boiler could be fitted the end result was an unreliable boiler and £1,000 out of pocket. Who installed it? Carillion.
Carillion are one of the recommended installers on Green Deal!
I am very suspicious that Green Deal recommended installers may be overpriced compared to local qualified companies.
So I asked Green Deal if I could choose a local known reliable double glazing company to install the new windows
Answer. ONLY IF THEY ARE PART OF THE GREEN DEAL SCHEME!
iT'S NO GREEN DEAL FOR ME! I will source companies I trust, borrow money cheaply knowing I am in full control of the outcome.

At least you have worked it out.
Very sensible approach.

Clear_and_Warm

I HAVE HAD THE ASSESMENT AND AWAIT ITS CONTENTS ALTHOUGH WE HAVE BEEN TOLD WE NEED A BOILER RADS AND LOFT INSULATE.
THE ONLY PROBLEM I HAVE IS GETTING PEOPLE ROUND MY HOUSE TO GIVE ME A QUOTE FOR A NEW BOILER AND RADS PLUS LOFT INSULATION AS PROVIDERS FOR EXAMPLE SCOTTISH POWER THIS MORNING VERY RUDELY STATED THAT THEY WERE NOT PART OF THE GREEN DEAL:mad: AND THERES ME THINKING THEY WERE PART OF THE GREEN DEAL, THEY ALSO SAID THEY DONT DO QUOTES FOR NEW BOILERS ?????
I HAVE BRIT GAS BOOKED IN FOR A QUOTE BUT I AM REALLY STRUGGLING TO BE ABLE TO GET 3 QUOTES FOR THE WORK TO BE DONE, CAN ANY ONE PLEASE PLEASE LET ME KNOW WHO I CAN PHONE IN THE SURREY AREA PLEASE