MCZ Musa Hydro 15kw - thoughts

captainhindsight_2

dotherightthingnow wrote: »

Any one with the slightest doubt needs but ask themselves again who has had their accreditation suspended, manufacturer or installer?

The manufacturer due to a communication issue not product issue, also many of these installers have stopped trading or will loose hetas mcs and recc membership due to bad installations.

dotherightthingnow

Kittie, as I have posted before in relation to MCZ stoves and other instances of faulty and subsequently recalled products the actual instances of fault are tiny %'s though Specflues 0.2% is a high figure in relation to some.

Hence you are pretty unlikely to suffer an explosion but the figure should be a big fat ZERO not 0.2%!!!

Also , when a company is made aware of issues then they should address them and not cover them up relying purely on the above statistics of 99.8% happy customers will out shout the 0.2% every day of the week. This is not some kind of popularity contest that can be won by such overwhelming odds, it is peoples live that are being played and gambled with every day that this goes on.

MCS lost their nerve and pulled the plug .

MCZ face prospect of costly replacement of a large number of stoves or discredit the 0.2% of affected customers whilst quickly changing the affected part on their later stoves with one eye at least on corporate manslaughter legislation in UK.

dotherightthingnow

Sorry, would poor communication be any more liable to make a stove blow up than not fitting a flu draught stabiliser?Or maybe they failed to communicate the fact that some of their stoves sold and fitted had blown up?

captainhindsight_2

dotherightthingnow wrote: »

Sorry, would poor communication be any more liable to make a stove blow up than not fitting a flu draught stabiliser?Or maybe they failed to communicate the fact that some of their stoves sold and fitted had blown up?

No.........

cancunia

Once again, we have anecdotal , unsubstatiated stories about 'explosions' circulating from anonymous sources, I hope that when Specflue open their doors again on Monday, we get a formal update.

Kittie, many thanks for posting the FAQ link, I'd forgotten about that. Like you, I have a 15kw stove and am quite happy with it. There have been no signs of pellets overfilling, blowing out etc and it heats my modest home quite nicely. There's every chance that any 15kw problems were due to poor installation. This seems to be a factor in all of the incidents so far, but for some reason is a more critical factor in the 22kw stoves. Maybe because the 22kw stoves need to burn more fuel than the 15kw in the same size unit.
My guess is that we are witnessing a learning curve amongst UK installers, many of whom have fallen by the wayside after initially thinking there was easy money to be made. After all they're only wood stoves so how hard can it be eh? My basis for this guess, is that there are zero reports on the German & Italian forums other than one quite old report from 2011. If these incidents were common, we'd see a lot more evidence of them outside of the UK



By the way, Happy New Year to you all!

cancunia

swampy, just a thought. Do you know what the 'Pellet Recipe' is set to on your stove? You can find this info by scrolling through the settings menu. This is a user level setting and does not need the installers password, however I suggest reading about it first if you're new to the menus. If you look at the user's guide it will explain how to look it up and also what changing the settings does.

Specflue

Following our initial posting to try and balance the views on this thread, I can see that some of the points raised have been taken out of context. I would like to point out that upon visiting any installation, as qualified engineers, the Specflue team have a duty of care to report on what they find. Therefore, any minor faults or issues with the standard of installations will be reported, even if they have no direct impact on the performance of the appliance. This is a responsibility we have and need to take very seriously.

There are also some discussions regarding the product and its
suitability. The product has been tested throughout Europe and has passed all tests it has been registered for. In the UK, BRE tested the appliance and it has been found to be fit for purpose and certified appropriate for MCS approval. This has not changed - the appliance has had further enhancements made based on safety grounds to compensate for possible poor installation practices and also poor maintenance regimes. Not our words, but an independent testing house engaged to carry out further tests following the incidents the Musa had experienced.

Also, in an effort to do everything we can to prevent this situation happening again, we are working closely with MCZ to redraft the installation and user instructions.

There have been a number of comments regarding flue stabilisers. It is the responsibility of the installing engineer to establish if external conditions will directly impact the efficiency of the flue. If there is any concern, then a flue draft stabiliser should be installed as best practice and a precautionary measure. Any flue draft stabiliser that is installed must be located in the same room as the appliance. Only then can the pressures of air intake and the flue system balance.

In answer to the point regarding the MCZ Musa being suspended due to poor communication, MCZ deals with several European authorities on their product range and compliance. The UK market is new to them and the processes and legislation are different to those of Germany and France. MCZ was communicating directly to the installer rather than BRE,which was noted when BRE decided to suspend the product. MCZ has now adopted a new procedure to improve communications.

To summarise, the product has now been through further independent testing and has been found to have met the required standard. There has been a safety enhancement to the product, which will prevent any ignitions causing the glass to break. The findings of the independent tests carried out concluded that the appliance, if installed and maintained correctly, raised no concerns. These are not MCZ or Specflue findings, but those of an independent testing house engaged to re-test the appliance on behalf of BRE. The safety enhancement will now be installed within future production runs and we are awaiting instruction from MCZ regarding retrofitting the solution within existing installations in the UK.

We would like to add that Specflue is currently working with members of the MCS biomass Committee, the Biomass Industry Group with Ecuity and we are also represented on all of the relevant solid fuel and biomass technical committees and training groups. The industry as a whole has learnt a lot from this situation which has been one positive. We are now working through all these avenues to improve the standard of knowledgeand installations within the UK, to continue to develop better products and ensure the home owners biomass experience is a positive one. Further enhancements will be implemented this year following with the experiences of the Service and Maintenance Team in order to reduce any confusion over the standards and the objectives of any intervention or support visit. These will include aligning our reporting process with that of the gas sector for consistency and promoting the accurate completion of commissioning paperwork, so any issues can be identified proactively rather than reacting to these when they surface.

We have recently taken on another Service Engineer to help move forward with the service and our plans for improvement.

dotherightthingnow

Many contradictions from Specflue as predictable.

Why is, as you state, MCZ having to work with you to " redraft the installation and user instructions". One minute MCZ and their stoves are the proverbial bees knees and the next you are having to tear up their installation book and write it all out again. Are these stoves getting so difficult to install without them exploding?

MCZ has now adopted a new procedure to improve communications.
Sure is desperate when you need to say that about your MCS accredited supplier.

There has been a safety enhancement to the product, which will prevent any ignitions causing the glass to break........................... The safety enhancement will now be installed within future production runs
Speaking of the runs...
So to quote you again, " The product has been tested throughout Europe and has passed all tests it has been registered for ".
Did the tests include safety? If you have to do a "safety enhancement" then the stoves now have a known safety fault. It isn't reassuring that you state ignition can cause the glass to break (explode)!

This is akin to a car manufacturer having an issue with faulty brakes. Instead of them admitting the brake fault, they decide to fit larger airbags for when you crash. :T

Specflue

Dotherightthingnow, I recognise that you seem to be well connected with various avenues of information and that you have a very strong opinion regarding MCZ.

In the interest of this thread and in order for us to gain a better understanding of your situation and experiences, I would welcome a face to face discussion around your concerns. We’re keen to learn from your experiences and I believe this would be very productive, as we value such feedback in order to help improve the standards of installation and provide valuable suggestions for future product development.

If you are interested, please can you respond to [EMAIL="feedback@specflue.com"]feedback@specflue.com[/EMAIL] with your contact details so that we can arrange a meeting

captainhindsight_2

Sounds like donetherightthingnow is one of Klover's sale reps, they are very well known in the industry for blindly criticising MCZ, red, specflue and even Frolling and eta boilers to everyone they come across to try and justify their sub standard products.