MCZ Musa Hydro 15kw - thoughts

dotherightthingnow

Nothing but trouble with my MCZ and regret the day I put it in. Eventually mine blew up too and only then did I start to learn of the real faults and other similar experiences by other owners. Little did I know of the battle that lay ahead which should have been simple with the accreditation from MCS and guarantees to help , how wrong could I have been. My stove sat idle and obviously not going to be used before I had to fund removal and replacement,resisting the temptation to claim the dangled RHI payments for next 7 years on a stove that did not work.

Information and documentation has been laid before MCS and BRE and recently I understand the accreditation has been suspended but still falls far short of the full product recall that is needed on this or any similar product or situation. Why wait for a fatal explosion or house fire?

Original supplier advises as follows:-


The product fault is quite simple (it is not due to ignition or repeated ignition failures) –
(1) When the appliance is already lit and running it will periodically (due to a component logic failure) deposit a constant, considerable amount of pellet fuel into the burning chamber extinguishing the fire (photographed and witnessed by numerous customers and consistent on every exploded appliance).
(2) should this large quantity of fuel subsequently warm and ignite – it will explode the glass - regardless of any installation (the physical unit has a 80mm diameter flue connection point and a 50mm air supply point).

Does MCS intend to admit, inform and “protect the consumers” about the facts of the pellet overfill fault which causes the explosion – this has been photographed, known and repeatedly stated for over 2 years?
Do MCS wish for a serious customer injury or a fatality to happen?

cancunia

dotherightthingnow, It would be interesting to know where the other users are communicating all this, where did you "learn of the real faults and other similar experiences by other owners"?

Your explanation of the fault does seem consistent with the single fault that I found on the Italian forum from 2010, but MCS / RHI have only referred to a few 22kw machines having this problem. I guess it's a few more than have come to light recently, but again, if this was a really common problem rooted in the "component logic", I'd expect that we'd be seeing a lot more instances both here and in other countries and also on 15 as well as 22kw stoves. My 15kw stove has never - so far - exhibited these problems.

I'm not an apologist for either Specflue or MCZ, I am not at all happy with their responses so far and have had to do a lot of arm twisting to get satisfactory service, but I do want to be sure that we all have a clear understanding of the true scope & scale of these incidents.

dotherightthingnow

Close on two years of shouting from the roof tops! Information has been laid with Gov't Ministers right up to Ed Davey at DECC yet as we all know to our cost they would not like the truth to really get out about the whole way these appliances got granted accreditation when it appears abundantly clear they knew little about them or the technology involved.

I understand MCZ have even mysteriously removed the offending part from new stoves yet failed to admit it had been at fault and just carried on clouding the water with finger of blame pointed at installers or too windy conditions if you live by the coast etc.

MCS and BRE are sitting on a dossier much fatter and far more accurate than that used to invade Iraq by well known politician in the past.Their response was merely to pass on owners details direct to MCZ in breach of data protection legislation and to enable MCZ to be first to contact customers telling them all was fine with their stoves (remember MCZ know this to be wrong as they have by this stage changed the faulty part). MCS then contact owners with watered down version of facts and events and to cover their own backsides against corporate manslaughter charges advise no one uses the stoves until checked by specflu. I am told that if they were invited to check then they have just shut stoves down and removed fuse or similar to prevent use.

I know of many similar stories to mine and people who have ,like me, removed stoves and replaced them and like me are burning oil to heat the home (at least the price is coming down!)

Zach_winch

Hi,
I'm really new to this and just really looking for some advice? We have a Musa from MCZ, and like some of you had have problems although to be honest not from Speclue. We have had to wait for visits a while, but when they arrive they do seem to be OK? Anyway I noticed the post about the pressure relief valve now ours is outside, but I have been told (by a friend) that it should actually be inside, and maybe this is causing problems? I don't really want to spend ages on the phone trying to get hold of my installer unless I sort of know what I am talking about? SO does it actually make a difference if the valve is outside?

Swampy2

dotherightthingnow when you refer to a part having been removed from the new stoves what part are you referring too?

I also have witnessed on start up a large amount of pellets falling on lit pellets extinguishing the flame that then subsequently relights, this is only on start up though. Your diagnostics of the problem are from your deductions I guess and haven't been verified by BRE, MCS, MCZ or Spec Flue at a guess.

When mine went wrong, glass didn't blow but seals failed this was on start up.

cancunia

zach_winch, Specflue told me that the testing being done is for a new part that goes inside the boiler.
As of yesterday they have no dates for approval of the tests or retro fit installation of the parts. I only got this info after a bit of cross-examination, asking them to clarify things based on their initial wooly answers. I mention the wooly answers bit as I got the impression that the person I spoke to didn't really know what was happening and may have been giving me answers to close the call.

Quite frankly, it would be best if Specflue were to give a straight answer as to what they or MCZ are testing and how they intend to implement whatever changes are needed.

My suggestion is that everyone who is concerned rasies a support ticket on the Heatweb Helpdesk. Enough tickets and they will probably wake up, calls alone to the 0800 number probably don't help as I doubt they are tracked.

http://www.heatweb.com/helpdesk/

dotherightthingnow

Remember for those who do not know or who have not been informed that MCZ's accreditation is suspended.

Ask yourselves why? Would you fit and use a non accredited appliance?

I understand that the "part" involved is not a retro fit option. I had a standard log stove for many years in my house and again so now. In between circa £10,000 was spent installing MCZ stove and subsequent removal and replacement with new log stove. I did not do this on a product I believed to be safe or in some way repairable, I would not take the chance that mine would blow up and burn the house down .

Worth pointing out too that if anyone suffers a fire from such explosion it is highly unlikely their insurance will pay out when the facts are known.

Not a very palatable position MCS and BRE leave us in. They have declined to take my freestanding machine away for testing even though offered for such. I don't think to this day they have even tested a machine to replicate the faults they have been made aware of, preferring to send "independent" investigator out to visit a couple of in situ machines in Grantown on Spey. They are though asking questions to which they already know the answers.

cancunia

dotherightthingnow, a few things from your posts don't quite add up or don't seem overly consistent. My apologies if I come across a bit strong, but I am becoming a little concerned.

What is it you have now - a log stove, or an oil stove?

"I know of many similar stories to mine and people who have ,like me, removed stoves and replaced them and like me are burning oil to heat the home (at least the price is coming down!)"

"subsequent removal and replacement with new log stove.":


Sorry, but I begin to wonder about your motivation. In the interests of balance, please, share some of the knowledge that you claim to have, let's have some factual, rather than anecdotal info. There are other items in your posts that give cause for concern, but hopefully you'll get the drift from these examples.

"Close on two years of shouting from the roof tops" - Which roofs?

"they would not like the truth to really get out about the whole way these appliances got granted accreditation " - What truth?

"MCS then contact owners with watered down version of facts and events and to cover their own backsides against corporate manslaughter charges advise no one uses the stoves until checked by specflu." - Really? I didn't get any such advice, nor did I see any on the MCS website.

"I understand MCZ have even mysteriously removed the offending part from new stoves" - Which part is that?

"I understand that the "part" involved is not a retro fit option. " - Which part is that?

"I would not take the chance that mine would blow up and burn the house down" - Where has this happened?

"I don't think to this day they have even tested a machine to replicate the faults they have been made aware of" - That's not what the MCS letter said if I recall correctly.

dotherightthingnow

Fact one, I had a log stove for years not connected to back boiler or anything else.

Bought pellet stove linked up with accumulator tank etc so heated everything rather than the separate oil boiler and log burner before.

Pellet stove US so taken out and new log stoveI was advised would not be compatible with accumulator set up so that was then connected to an oil boiler again. Oil now heats the domestic water and all radiators, log stove the lounge okay?

Other replies will follow.

captainhindsight_2

To the person who said their stove actually blew up, if specflue didn't blame the boiler but the installer what part of the installation did the blame? Did you Have a draft stabiliser fitted, was it set up correctly?