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We WILL get an EU referendum
Comments
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HAMISH_MCTAVISH wrote: »
3) We would prefer to work with our partners in Europe from the inside, from a position of mutual respect and with a seat around the table to protect British interests.
Why campaign on it? It's being done. That would make labour look even more stupid.
Cameron has become a Statesman overnight according to some in the EU. They are now willing to listen. They are now, crucially, as per Angela Merkel, willing to negotiate.
Today, it#s being reported they are listening to him in a way they never have before, seeing him as powerful, and threat to their own stability. It's being reported now that the EU has tried to bluster, but Cameron calling the referendum has shown the bluster has not worked.
Therefore, they are now willing to negotiate. Something you said wouldn't happen. The scare stories you tried to throw us all, look less and less likely as Cameron get's more authority.
You've been wrong, completely and utterly wrong throughout this whole campaign of yours.
Even the guardian article has switched it's position from "oh my gods, it's terrible what Cameron has done" to "oh, erm, labour could be resignd to history if they don't offer people a choice". Advisors have been rushed in to see Milliband and we'll likely hear plans for the same referendum within a week.0 -
GeorgeHowell wrote: »Labour is terrified of anything that would put the brake on us heading towards being part of a federal Europe. It would end their dream of permanent socialist government via Brussels.
Labour are in danger of boxing themselves in. (Shows the inepitude in their policy of attacking the Government at every possible monent). As in 2 years there'll be a general election. Last thing they can afford to do. Is make a rigid policy statement now. As Europe may well explode in some form during the intervening period.
This a repeat of their economic policy. Slate the coalilition. But make no promises to reverse current policy. Cake and eat it springs to mind.
Start placing bets on DM to be the new leader. With a new shadow cabinet to boot.0 -
More & more this looks like (uncharacterstically) a brilliant move by Cameron. Labour have been utterly outmaneouvred. Their choices now are to abandon their beliefs AND be seen to just meekly copy the Tories, by promising a referendum, or to stick to the disastrous policy of NOT agreeing they'll have one.
Meanwhile Cameron gets to attempt to negotiate a better deal off the back of the rest of Europe knowing he's not simply bluffing - if the Tories win the only way the UK would stay in Europe is if the electorate like whatever gets agreed.
Maybe Labour will offer their own EU negotiations and referendum to the British people, one that doesn't include selling individual rights down the river. Maybe the EU then signal to the British people that they can see the benefits in the Labour proposals, just a thought
'Just think for a moment what a prospect that is. A single market without barriers visible or invisible giving you direct and unhindered access to the purchasing power of over 300 million of the worlds wealthiest and most prosperous people' Margaret Thatcher0 -
Graham_Devon wrote: »It's come to a position now of "We know what people want", but it only takes one question of "how, if you won't allow a vote" to bring it all falling down. That's not tenable going forward, and as suggested yesterday to Hamish, Labour will HAVE to offer a referendum going forward. They can't campaign on this confused, we know better than you plebs footing.
What's caught labour out is that they've got so used to opposing that they haven't fully thought out a response. It's awkward for them because they are in favour of EU membership, so are the Lib Dems and so are, when push comes to shove, the conservatives so their point of difference cannot just be opposite to the government.
A sensible approach would have been that suggested by Hamish rather than letting Ed Milliband stumble around PMQ's trying to work out what he was against on the hoof. He might even have asked what exactly it is that the conservatives hope to renegotiate.
This is a massive issue and will likely dominate the election campaign. Labour should suggest that if there's a referendum is be held asap - why not on the same day as the election? Call their bluff.0 -
Maybe Labour will offer their own EU negotiations and referendum to the British people, one that doesn't include selling individual rights down the river. Maybe the EU then signal to the British people that they can see the benefits in the Labour proposals, just a thought
I'd be willing to say categorically, that they will.
It won't be that long until they have a referendum planned, probably trying to jump in before 2017. My thoughts is they will offer an immediate referendum if they get power in 2015.
However, they (and their followers who have been describing the tory posiition as everything under the sun) will have to spend a lot of time trying to word it correctly. It's a train wreck at the moment.
Ed Milliband has reportedly stated that they will now cut the benefits dramtically of immigrants, in a quick response, trying to do something, anything to appease those who want a vote. But straight away, that undermines the values of the labour party, as they are seen as discriminating against immigrants....and blimey, they (or should i say their voters) have a long history of shouting "Racist, biggot" to anyone who dare mention immigration in a debate. So again, it both feet shot straight away, hence aides have been rused to Labour HQ this morning.0 -
Like it. Mobilise all the UKIP voters. Challenge the tories to position themselves..... This is a massive issue and will likely dominate the election campaign. Labour should suggest that if there's a referendum is be held asap - why not on the same day as the election? Call their bluff.You might as well ask the Wizard of Oz to give you a big number as pay a Credit Referencing Agency for a so-called 'credit-score'0 -
The electorate won't understand whatever gets agreed. But it won't matter, because the vote will be a verdict on the leadership, as usual.Meanwhile Cameron gets to attempt to negotiate a better deal off the back of the rest of Europe knowing he's not simply bluffing - if the Tories win the only way the UK would stay in Europe is if the electorate like whatever gets agreed.
The public like AV, but Clegg lost that vote single-handed because his own credibility was shot to pieces. People would vote against motherhood and apple pie if Clegg was in favour.
Cameron's own political capital is very thin. His best chance to win the next election is by whipping up anti-Europe sentiment. But then he could end up in Brussels with no cards to play, if the polls are saying that he can't win a referendum whatever the deal is.
His best chance to get anything out of Europe was to threaten a referendum. But he's wasted that card now, and got himself a Europe that wants him to lose the election."It will take, five, 10, 15 years to get back to where we need to be. But it's no longer the individual banks that are in the wrong, it's the banking industry as a whole." - Steven Cooper, head of personal and business banking at Barclays, talking to Martin Lewis0 -
Graham_Devon wrote: »Therefore, they are now willing to negotiate. Something you said wouldn't happen. The scare stories you tried to throw us all, look less and less likely as Cameron get's more authority.
Negotiate about what? When?
I guarantee that any negotiations will be successful and after Cameron's got the best deal for the UK (as if he would admit to anything else) they'll campaign for a yes vote.
After he's given Europe a talking to you'll vote yes, so will I, and so will Hamish - bit of a waste of time really. There will be a landslide yes and UKIP will be shafted and so will the Eurosceptic conservatives. Job done.0 -
Labour's policy hasn't changed. There will be no referendum unless there are treaty changes being considered. Cameron has changed because of the headbangers in his own party. Milliband just needs to sit back and watch....and see what happens in these so called negotiations with Europe. Its posh boy who has put himself on the line. He has set himself a task of achieving a return of powers against the opposition of the French and Germans etc and what's more he will need to convince his own headbangers that whatever he 'achieves' will be sufficient for them. Meanwhile UKIP will be shouting at him from the sidelines.
L!
He has been a bit smarter than that in attempting to deceive the British population, no negotiations until after the next election.'Just think for a moment what a prospect that is. A single market without barriers visible or invisible giving you direct and unhindered access to the purchasing power of over 300 million of the worlds wealthiest and most prosperous people' Margaret Thatcher0 -
Maybe Labour will offer their own EU negotiations and referendum to the British people, one that doesn't include selling individual rights down the river. Maybe the EU then signal to the British people that they can see the benefits in the Labour proposals, just a thought
The only individual rights that most people associate with Europe is the right for illegal immigrants, criminals, and terrorists to remain in the UK whilst continuing to commit crime, preach hatred against us, and live off benefits. Labour certainly won't commit to change any of that.No-one would remember the Good Samaritan if he'd only had good intentions. He had money as well.
The problem with socialism is that eventually you run out of other people's money.
Margaret Thatcher0
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