Flight delay and cancellation compensation, KLM/AF ONLY

genieg63

Well I made my complaint to the CAA and within a couple of months Air France got in touch with me and as a good will gesture issued me with the original voucher of £360 valid from 14/10/13 for 12 months . So if you persevere you do get results

David_e

genieg63 wrote: »

Well I made my complaint to the CAA and within a couple of months Air France got in touch with me and as a good will gesture issued me with the original voucher of £360 valid from 14/10/13 for 12 months . So if you preserve you did get results

A big hand for the CAA and Air France! Pity the CAA didn't tell AF you were (presumably) entitled to cash.

genieg63

Yes the cash would have been better but a voucher is better than nothing . The CAA didn't actually resolve the matter, Air france made the offer to me directly after the CAA contacted them and I accepted ,only afterwards did I receive a notification from CAA stating that the complaint had to go to the relevant authority in France and they could not resolve the matter in the UK, who knows how long that would have taken .

stsimon

Hi, thank you all for the valuable info in this forum and in the FAQ!
My situation is silghtly complex, but I believe should be covered:

My wife and I were on AF39 which departed IAD at 1840 instead of 1615 and arrived 2 hours late at CDG resulting in a missed connection. We had been scheduled to fly on AF1960, arriving in TLV at 12:40PM. Instead we had to take AF1620, which was scheduled to arrive at 1620 PM - a scheduled delay of close to 4 hours. In actual fact, AF1620 was delayed too, and only arriving in TLV at 5:15PM, an overall delay of over 4.5 hours.

From what I can tell, delays caused by missed connections are covered by EU261, and I wrote AF as such. Delta customer care responded as follows:

"The delay of your flights were beyond our control. We took all the reasonable measures we could under the circumstances and made every effort to offer you care and assistance. [STS - this is actually not true!] Regulation (EC) 261/2004 does not require compensation in this event. When a flight is canceled or delayed less than five hours, passengers should be confirmed on the next available flight."

The reference to 5 hours seems to me to be irrelevant to Article 7 compensation. (The only reference to 5 hours I found in EU261 was when an airline is required to refund or reroute.) I wrote them as such, and they simply responded:

"The burden of proof concerning a cancellation/delay and whether is is compensable or not rests with the operating air carrier. Unfortunately, compensation is not due in this case. Respectfully, there is nothing else I can add. I am sorry to say that any further correspondence would only be repetitive and unlikely to prove productive. We hope you can move beyond this disappointing event."

They acknowledged that the burden of proof is upon them, but then didn't provide any!
Sorry for the longwinded post...at this point, if I have a case (which it seems to me I do), I think I should be contacting the CAA or equivalent? I saw someone else said the CAA wasn't helpful for an AF flight. Who is the right authority to contact then? (Again, all my contact with them has been by way of Delta for some reason.) Or should I just give it up and stick with the $100 giftcard?
Thank you again, all you helpful folk!

Vauban

I don't see what is complex about this case. If the original delay at IAD was not caused by extraordinary circumstances; then you are due €600 per paying passenger. The point about connecting flights is covered by the Folkerts judgement - which AF should know about, as they lost it!

JPears

But if they flew with Delta, not Air France, from a US airport (IAD is Washington Dulles?) then no compensation due?

Vauban

Yes. But he flew with Air France.

stsimon

Correct, I flew AF, all the way. (Original booking was a Flying Blue mileage ticket in J (Business), directly with AF.) Not really sure why Delta got involved.

Thanks for confirming - I actually found that judgement (probably somewhere in these forums!) and referenced it in my very first email to them!

What is the next step, since they appear to be rejecting me entirely?
(As quoted before... "burden of proof is on us...but we won't give you any, so nothing more to discuss". Already asked for manager and was told "I've discussed this matter with my manager, and I was asked to handle it to conclusion.")

Thanks again for the help!

JPears

stsimon wrote: »

Correct, I flew AF, all the way. (Original booking was a Flying Blue mileage ticket in J (Business), directly with AF.) Not really sure why Delta got involved.

Thanks for confirming - I actually found that judgement (probably somewhere in these forums!) and referenced it in my very first email to them!

What is the next step, since they appear to be rejecting me entirely?
(As quoted before... "burden of proof is on us...but we won't give you any, so nothing more to discuss". Already asked for manager and was told "I've discussed this matter with my manager, and I was asked to handle it to conclusion.")

Thanks again for the help!

My bad. It was the Delta element that confused me.
Start a legal claim, or wait until Huzar concluded (could be 12-18 months away) or employ a NWNF legal firm to take on your case.

JPears

Well I've booked flights for skiing with KLM next Feb. Leeds to Lyon via Amsterdam. Originally 65 min change at Amsterdam, first flight already changed to 15 mins later so now 50min allowed to transfer. Minimum recommended 40mins. Current flights are on average 15 mins late, it was 30 mins late today.... could be interesting as the next direct connecting flight arrives 9 hours later....
Can't understand why the flight is persistently late departing since it is one of the first flights out of Leeds/Bradford in the morning and the plane is sat on the tarmac from previous evening's flight!
I shall be armed with all my 261/2004 paperwork including copies for other passengers. Presumably if I can see from timing before leaving Leeds, that we will miss connection, can I insist on being booked on a different connecting flight (there is one via Paris CDG) that only arrives 4 hours later, whilst I am still in Leeds?
Although I am trying to be optimistic